P3AT: Failures to extract spent cartridge

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by 98_1LE, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. 98_1LE

    98_1LE New Member

    345
    Dec 29, 2005
    I took my P3AT to the range today and popped off 50 rounds. I would have shot more, but it was failing to extract the spent cartridge from the barrel, much less eject it, one or two times per magazine.

    The time before I last shot it the same thing happened, but the extractor screw was backing out. I have not put an allen wrench to it yet, but it doesn't seem loose. The failures were with both brands of ammo.

    Think it is time for a trip back to mama? There have only been 428 rounds fired. I am pretty sure I was not limp wristing, but I did have to reposition my grip slightly after firing many times.

    On a second note, the recoil from Corbon DPX is equal to or slightly less than DoubleTap 95gr FMJ.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Just make sure that the extractor screw is tight before returning it for service.  I have seen those screws cause FTE when they were only a quarter turn less than snug.  Many folks put a small drop of blue locktite on the very top threads.
     

  3. zeke

    zeke New Member

    Dec 20, 2005
    I'm not familar with the history of your gun. Has it been happening since your gun was new? Or only after you found your extractor loose?

    Check out this thread reply #3 if your slide has the marks like the picture then you will need to return it for service.
    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1145152844

    Also check to make sure the point of your extractor isn't damaged. The above thread also has a picture of what a new undamaged extractor should look like.
     
  4. 98_1LE

    98_1LE New Member

    345
    Dec 29, 2005
    The screw turned ~1/8 turn. I put blue lock-tite on it last time.

    History is it was pretty reliable with the occasional failure to eject or extract, then got very unreliable. The screw had backed out, so I pulled it carefully, put some blue on the threads, and put it back in. Next time out it had a couple FTE with Federal AE, but it was hot and dirty after perfectly firing 40 DPX and a mag of Ranger T's, so I didn't worry about it.

    The extractor is sharp. zeke, I cannot see the link. Mind posting it again?

    FWIW the gun has never had a F&B.
     
  5. BillK

    BillK New Member

    898
    Jul 23, 2007
    I had the same problem out of the box with my then new P3AT. When I called Kel-Tec concerning the failure to extract they asked me to run some more rounds through the gun and if the problem persisted call them back. Problem continued and when I called Kel-Tec again they said that chances were (I think the fellow said 80%) that a new extractor would fix the problem. Recieved the new extractor within 4-5 days. The new extracter, though to my eye looking identical to the old extractor, fixed the problem. Approx. 200-300 rounds through my gun since then and not one single failure.

    Good luck ...
     
  6. 98_1LE

    98_1LE New Member

    345
    Dec 29, 2005
    Maybe I can meet up with Wilson next time he is going to the range to make sure the problem is not the shooter... ;)
     
  7. flonder22

    flonder22 New Member

    376
    Feb 11, 2007
    Mine did the same thing shooting Federal AE, spent cartridge stayed in barrel. It has never done this with any other ammo. :-/
     
  8. gb6491

    gb6491 New Member

    103
    Aug 19, 2007
    You might give a look to see if anything got behind the extractor or if it's binding up in the slide cutout.

    Somebody mentioned on the P32 forum that one brand of ammo had a thicker rim and did not function well in his pistol.

    Regards,
    Greg
     
  9. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Strange as it seems, that may do the job especially if Kel-Tec also sends a new spring and buttonhead. While rare, I have had a weak ejector spring in addition to a slightly dull extractor. The newer black (no change in silver) buttonheads are made of harder metal and can be tightened more with a 2mm hexdriver (flat not ball) without stripping. (Wilson FTE Kit pictured below)

    [​IMG]

    Wilson – who’s never without extra extractor parts in his Famous Parts Box
     
  10. Connection

    Connection New Member

    145
    Jun 27, 2007
    Isn't heat used to break blue locktite free? I know I've loosened it up with a soldering iron before. Wouldn't the heat from repeated firing cause the locktite to loosen up allowing the hex bolt to back out?
     
  11. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Blue Lock-Tite is hand tool tighten/hand tool loosen without anything else. Red is supposed to be heat or power tool to loosen.

    -Scott
     
  12. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    The "hand tool" status was meant for 3/8-16" and larger threads.  Using 242 on the much smaller #6 allen head can have a break away torque equal to the yeild strenght of the screw and possibly strip the key fit in the head.  By increasing the temperture (200F) of the 242 secured screw will reduce the break away torque 50%.  

    So while it may not be needed, it sure helps to remove the screw

    Now if the slide gets that hot, the 242 stregth will be reduced, but any thing over 130F will cause major skin burns

    Here is an old post that has references to lok tite info
     
  13. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    [​IMG]

    YOU DA MAN! Us lawyers just read the package. YOU WRITE THE DETAILS!

    -Scott
     
  14. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    Here is the question though. How many rounds, in what duration will increase the slide to 200F?

    Even as hot 400F, the 242 will have 25% of its holding strenght

    The most i have done is a rapid 5 rounds and it didnot get so hot I couldn't hold
     
  15. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Uhhh . . . I’ve burned a small blister touching the front portion of a P-3AT slide. I have more than two dozen magazines and usually load 100 rounds of .380 ammo before heading to the range. I now let my P-3ATs cool after 4 or 5 magazines during rapid fire.

    Wilson – who’s P-3ATs are pampered but not babied :)
     
  16. zeke

    zeke New Member

    Dec 20, 2005

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1145152844

    Sorry about that I think I forgot to put it in the first post.
     
  17. 98_1LE

    98_1LE New Member

    345
    Dec 29, 2005
    Thanks. It has the newer extractor design. The "point" is shiny, but still more pointy than the old style part.

    I guess the right thing to do at this point is take a step back. The gun was perfectly reliable with DPX. This past time I mixed DPX and DoubleTap FMJ, and didn't pay close attention as to which was having the failures, although most of the ammo was DT. So I made sure the screw is tight (is there a torque spec?) and will take a box of DPX to the range next time. It is shoots them 100%, the alternating of DPX and DT idea goes out the window.

    Thanks for everyones time.
     
  18. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    #6-32 recomended maximun torque (reusing screw) 8.7 INCH-POUNDs for a plan low carbon steel and only 9.8 Inch-pounds for high strenght 18-8.

    taking the screw to "just yeild" (one use) is difficult to find with hand tools since it will occur about 15 inch pounds and plastic deformation occurs.

    With a standard "L" key, with the short leg in the screw, the maximun torque can be achieved with only index and thumb