P3AT 1 Gen extractor

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by gunplumber, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. gunplumber

    gunplumber New Member

    7
    Jul 31, 2009
    I have several P3Ats in 1 and 2 Gen. On one of the 1Gen I have consistent (1-2/mag) failure to feed. The rim appears to bind under the extractor. A comparison of extractors indicates that one has a larger rim-relief cut behind the claw than the one that fails. I have browsed these pages and found them most useful - Thanks! I had a question on this picture, but I can't PM the poster until I have 1 post in the forums - so here is my one post.

    I am trying to determine if this is an old and new extractor, or same extractor before and after.




    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/TxCajun/KTOG/2gextr1.jpg


    This link (thank you loki, for the link) addressed what I suspected the issue to be.

    http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/extractor.htm
     
  2. scotthsi

    scotthsi New Member

    21
    Jul 27, 2009
    I can do you one better.  Box it up, send it to KT with a nice letter explaining that the OLD 1st Gen P3AT has been unreliable.  Has it been back to KT before?  If so, even better.  I did just this very thing late last year with a 1st Gen explaining that it had been to KT for repairs twice and was never right.  They replaced the entire gun with a brand spankin' new 2nd Gen P3AT for free.  And it had the new hammer block so you can't short stroke the trigger.  The new gun has been flawless for over 500 rounds of mixed ammo.

    Also, I noticed in your sig line that you claim to be an "ARS Master Gunsmith".  Seriously?  You can't diagnose/fix this problem yourself?  If the extractor doesn't have enough clearance, either grind it out some or call KT and they'll send you a new extractor, spring and roll pin assembly for free.  In fact, I'll bet they'll even send more than one set!
     

  3. gunplumber

    gunplumber New Member

    7
    Jul 31, 2009
    One of reasons I was voted Small Arms Review gunsmith of the year, is I don't leap in and start grinding on stuff just because I think I know the problem. I've published How-Tos on gunsmithing most models of HK, AK, FAL, Browning High Powers, and Sig-Sauers. But that doesn't mean I know everything about the kelTec. So I do research before grinding on stuff. If there were more like me, I'd have less repairs to do.. Far too many guns trasheded as well-meaning but ignorant people chase symptoms and miss the problem.
     
  4. kbizzle

    kbizzle New Member

    87
    Oct 21, 2008
    amen, gunplumber!  :)

    oh, and i would send it back to KT too.

    cheers and welcome.
     
  5. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    That picture is an old version 2G extractor and a new version 2G extractor.

    I am not sure of this, but I believe that there are also two versions of the 1G extractor. I think there was recent thread were a forum member had to contact KT a number of times before they sent the correct (new) 1G extractor.

    I suggest you call KT service and request a couple of (latest version) 1G extractors. They will probably send them out free. If you still have problems after trying those return the gun and let them fix it or replace it - also free.

    Bobo
     
  6. gunplumber

    gunplumber New Member

    7
    Jul 31, 2009
    I have been dealing with KT's "CUSTOMER SERVICE." Rude - snippy - and refuses to answer my question. Insists there is only one 2 Gen extractor, and won't tell me about differences in 1 Gen extractors or even admit there are different extractors.

    It seems their business model is to send out un-checked guns as cheap as possible and deal with their defects on an individual basis. I've had a P32 for years and now have several of the .380s. as well and I am disgusted with whoever they have answering e-mails. Looks like I will have to call next week and find someone there who isn't a jerk.
     
  7. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    It's always better to call Kel-Tec. I don't know why, but I have heard of others who have had problems with their e-mail service, but very seldom have a problem when they get them on the phone. Personally, I have only dealt with them on the phone and they've always been great!

    Bobo
     
  8. scotthsi

    scotthsi New Member

    21
    Jul 27, 2009
    I've received nothing but stellar service from KT and I've owned various KT pistols for almost 10 years now.  And, I'd agree with KT.  There IS only one style of 2nd Gen extractor.  I got a 2nd Gen right when they first came out and currently have several complete sets of extractor, hex bolt and leaf spring assemblies as spares.  They all look exactly the same.  Same for one of my 2nd Gens that is 4+ years old and my brand new one I received from KT (replaced an unreliable 1st Gen for free) late last year.  The extractors are exactly the same in guns produced several years apart.  Yes, I saw the comparison picture, but I have never seen the "old style" even after owning a 2nd Gen when they first came out.  Perhaps that version was never released in production for the public?  EVERY one I've seen has the sharp point.

    As for the 1st Gen extractors, there really weren't two different versions.  There was the first extractor design that didn't work so well.  Then KT started putting the P32 extractor in the slides because it had a larger claw with a portion that hung down lower.  They did go through several different ejector designs before settling on the current design which is completely flush with the left slide rail.
     
  9. gunplumber

    gunplumber New Member

    7
    Jul 31, 2009
    I think I'll take the photographic evidence of two different Gen 2 extractors over the "I haven't personally seen one so they don't exist" approach.
     
  10. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    [​IMG]

    For what it is worth. about half the "gun experts" passing throught here have posted that their extractor had the sharp point and to fix their problems, they rounded the tip to make it look like the left. where as the other half have replaced an used (worn) extractor with a new one to fix thier problem. :-/

    as for whether or not KT intentionally had a rounded and sharp tip, I don't believe so, but more of a degree differances between the machines producing them. for example the sharp tip extractor takes less time to produce than the rounded tip
     
  11. gunplumber

    gunplumber New Member

    7
    Jul 31, 2009
    The R photo demonstrate two distinct, additional machining operations - one of which is on a different axis, not the same operation performed by a different machine, or a worn cutter.
     
  12. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    I own both generations.  In a million years I'd never forfit a 1st gen for a 2nd gen pistol that I could buy at the corner store. In fact, I would never send in a 1st gen pistol w/o making it clear not to replace it. ymmv.  :-/
     
  13. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
  14. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Note:  The one labeled "new" may well be a 1st gen P32 extractor, but they reportedly work better in some 1st gen P3ATs.

    The more I think about it, the more I seem to recall it was a P32 part. If Wilson were around, he'd remember for sure. I think he may be the one that first tried the P32 extractor in a P3AT.
     
  15. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    the photo does show the extreme, of the three spare extractors I have, the sharpness of the tip varies slightly. observing the finish on the bevel face, i would say the one on the right has seen sandpaper, if not a file also
     
  16. gunplumber

    gunplumber New Member

    7
    Jul 31, 2009
    great pic, thanks. I don't have the problem child here right now for a pic, but it appears to have the larger claw, as on the right, but the radius cut behind the claw is smaller, as on the left one.
     
  17. scotthsi

    scotthsi New Member

    21
    Jul 27, 2009
    I own both generations.  In a million years I'd never forfit a 1st gen for a 2nd gen pistol that I could buy at the corner store.  In fact, I would never send in a 1st gen pistol w/o making it clear not to replace it.  ymmv.  :-/
    [/quote]

    I can appreciate the die hard 1st gen fans, but if you had an unreliable one (since you said NEVER), why would you be so opposed to having it replaced with a brand new 2nd Gen one?  Just my opinion, but I think the 2nd Gens look better.  There's no denying that working on/removing the extractor is MUCH easier since you don't have to beat out a roll pin and they are "fiddly" to reinstall.  My 2nd gens also fit in all the same holsters perfectly.  After personally owning and carrying both generations, I don't care what anyone says...  You can NOT feel the minuscule difference between the two unloaded weights of 8 and 8.3 oz, 1st and 2nd gen respectively, when carrying in a pocket.  

    Is it just the "ohhh, cool, look at me" factor because you have a *cough* "rare" P3AT?
     
  18. haugrdr

    haugrdr Super Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Jan 4, 2008
    Daytona Beach
  19. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    Just a note to say that it is much easier to change extractors on a Gen. I if you carefully drive the extractor pin down from the top but leave it "hanging" in the bottom of the slide and not completely out. Then you just have to drive it back in from the bottom. A "roll pin" punch makes it easier to do as well. If you do drive it all the say out you can slightly bevel the hole in the bottom of the slide with a over-sized drill bit to aide in reinserting the roll pin.
     
  20. JB

    JB Guest

    FWIW, when I called KelTec customer service recently because I was having extraction problems I asked for the 'new' style extractor. The customer service rep. informed me that they only had one style extractor for the first gen. P3AT. She said that the only way to get a newer-style extractor would be to swap it out for a second generation P3AT because the only 'new' style extractor they have for the P3AT is the second gen. extractor that won't work in the first gen. slide. Sure enough, when the new extractor arrived it looked just like the picture on the left, above (the one labeled as the 'old' style extractor.) As I can't see why they would continue to produce the 'old' style if they had switched to a 'new' style for the first gen. - and since the person from whom customers order replacement parts said that there is no 'newer' style extractor for the first gen., I believe there is only one first gen extractor style made for the P3AT.