[patrickstickler]

Not sure if these have been featured before in this forum, but I found these tests to be really interesting.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot27.htm

They've pretty much affirmed my decision to only
carry FMJ in my P3-AT.

 

[Packer]

Amen! I now interleave 9mm DPX with FMJ also.

Packer.

 

[ice]

It was a pleasant surprise to see that the .380 hardball held its own against a standard .38 special.

 

[nicneufeld]

If you compare the two tests...it is interesting...he shows 9mm and 40 cal JHP penetrating 2 and 3 jugs, but the 380 JHP penetrated 4 jugs. Doesn't make too much sense to me!

 

[light_gunman]

I have done tests using phone books. The 32 and 380 just make it through one phone book. The 9mm punches through two phone books and goes well into a third. I carry corbon 115 gr +P JHP in my 9's, and corbon 90 gr JHP in my 380 P3-AT. To think a 9mm will not penetrate as much as a 380 is a joke. What was this guy smoking, when he did his water tests !

 

[Guest]

I have done tests using phone books. The 32 and 380 just make it through one phone book. The 9mm punches through two phone books and goes well into a third. I carry corbon 115 gr +P JHP in my 9's, and corbon 90 gr JHP in my 380 P3-AT. To think a 9mm will not penetrate as much as a 380 is a joke. What was this guy smoking, when he did his water tests !

+10 on that, whatever he was smoking would bring big bucks up in my State..

 

[adamky]

According to the tests, a .380 FMJ penetrates 5 jugs, while a .40S&W 180gr Federal Hydrashok penetrates 3 jugs, and a Winchester Ranger SXT 155 grain JHP penetrates only 2 jugs??

I am totally confused at how that's even possible. Makes me wonder how much "truth" there is to "The Box of Truth." :-/

 

[Guest]

According to the tests, a .380 FMJ penetrates 5 jugs, while a .40S&W 180gr Federal Hydrashok penetrates 3 jugs, and a Winchester Ranger SXT 155 grain JHP penetrates only 2 jugs??

I am totally confused at how that's even possible.

VERY SIMPLE EXPLANATION: The test with the 380 was done with EMPTY jugs. The others were full of liquid cement. darn guys anyone could figure that out.. ;D ;D

 

[Eric_in_Nola]

I think I'm switching to FMJ.

 

[Rubb]

For your water jug penetration pleasure

http://www.stevespages.com/page8f.htm

 

[Packer]

According to the tests, a .380 FMJ penetrates 5 jugs, while a .40S&W 180gr Federal Hydrashok penetrates 3 jugs, and a Winchester Ranger SXT 155 grain JHP penetrates only 2 jugs??

I am totally confused at how that's even possible. Makes me wonder how much "truth" there is to "The Box of Truth."   :-/

  The rounds that penetrated 4 or more jugs were either FMJ, or they did not expand. Rounds that did NOT penetrate 4 or more jugs expanded fully.

  The expansion of the JHP acts just like a parachute opening--It slows the bullet and limits penetration.

Packer.

 

[rcmodel]

Just goes to show how poor a medium water jugs are for testing bullets.

No one in their right mind would argue that either a .40S&W 180gr Hydrashok, or a SXT 155 grain JHP are not at, or very near the top of the list of best pistol caliber man-stoppers out there.

Shooting through 4 gallons of water is way over-penetration in anyones book.
All that energy & penetration would just be wasted on the landscape downrange behind the BG!

rcmodel

 

[Syndil]

I agree that this is not the most scientific test, but he does state that water compares to ballistics gel in a 2:1 ratio, so a bullet has to travel twice as far through water as it would through gel to have the same penetration. And he also states that some ballisitcs expert somewhere says that 12" of penetration into ballistics gel is the minimum he recommends to ensure hitting vital organs. Thus the 4 water bottles (24" of water).

I won't try and defend the validity of the test, but even if you look at GoldenLoki's data, it is very clear that JHP does not penetrate as far as FMJ, and the reason for that is just as Packer describes. Once the JHP penetrates its target and it expands, it's just like opening the parachute on a dragster. Slows it down very quickly and limits the penetration.

In a higher-powered gun this is probably a non-issue, but it is exactly why I carry ONLY FMJ in my .32, and I would recommend the same for a .380.

 

[Guest]

oh I see that damn horse coming out of the grave again :'(

 

[Packer]

Just goes to show how poor a medium water jugs are for testing bullets.

No one in their right mind would argue that either a .40S&W 180gr Hydrashok, or a SXT 155 grain JHP are not at, or very near the top of the list of best pistol caliber man-stoppers out there.

Shooting through 4 gallons of water is way over-penetration in anyones book.
All that energy & penetration would just be wasted on the landscape downrange behind the BG!

rcmodel

  your argument does not hold water. (Pun intended)

First, you are throwing out those statements as though they were facts, not your opinions--Which they must be without evidence to back them up.

Second, You equate 12 inches of water with 12 inches of BG. Flesh and bone are much denser than water.

  Look not at the MEDIUM, but how the tests compare between rounds in the same stuff--And how those correlations compare with tests in OTHER mediums.

The results are fairly consistent with JHP vs FMJ performance in other tests.

Packer.

 

[wheelguy]

Either FMJ or JHP is best suited to a particular engagement scenario. Skinny guy at close range - JHP. Fat guy with lots of clothing at a distance - FMJ. So, some prefer to alternate between both because you never know what you will actually be faced with if the time comes.

Perhaps everyone will agree that the .380 can't do the job of a .357 or a .40, so we have to be more flexible when it comes to choosing our self protection load. Me - 2 types of JHP for spring fall and summer, and alternating FMJ and JHP for winter.

 

[Hutch01]

Either FMJ or JHP is best suited to a particular engagement scenario. Skinny guy at close range - JHP. Fat guy with lots of clothing at a distance - FMJ. So, some prefer to alternate between both because you never know what you will actually be faced with if the time comes.

Add it that oblique angles or an intermediate barriers such as glass or car door in an attempted carjacking.

It's totally and utterly unpredictable which one is best under all circumstances. You make your decision and hope it's the right choice.

And, please not this dead horse again....

 

[adamky]

The rounds that penetrated 4 or more jugs were either FMJ, or they did not expand. Rounds that did NOT penetrate 4 or more jugs expanded fully.

The expansion of the JHP acts just like a parachute opening--It slows the bullet and limits penetration.

Packer.

Looking again, I did not realize the amount of expansion that was going on with the .40 S&W rounds. Now wonder it didn't penetrate that much! They all expanded to a fairly large diameter.

 

[Spikejerk]

And, please not this dead horse again....

 

[shayes223]

I guess I'll quit whining for a 9mm Makarov conversion kit, his test showed similar penetration to the 380.  Shot a Winchester Ranger (SXT?) into a plastic 5 gallon bucket of water with the P3AT and it blew the bucket apart.  Try that with your bare hands.  I'm a DPX convert now, it out penetrates all JHP's I've tested that will expand.