[KTOM]

Bad day at Black Rock! Just purchased a New in box P17 and first day at the range and on magazine #3 using a mix of Remington Thunderbolt, Browning BPR, and Winchester Super X ammo it went bang in a bad way. After 9 or so rounds an explosion in the breach, the slide was blown off the right rail jammed in a mid-stroke position. Wow. I jerked on the slide after dropping the magazine and while holding the slide stop tabs down was able to field strip the slide. The explosion damaged and cracked the magazine and looks like the .22 round head blew apart. After searching the ground was able to find about 13 bulging cases from all three ammo makers and luckily a ripped apart case head. There appears to be some slight damage to the right frame slide and a split magazine on the front side.

I called Keltec this morning and customer service was good and she asked for all the information to generate a shipping label, I also went today to my LGS where I purchased the pistol and they informed me their distributor has a lifetime replacement guarantee. I then call their distributor and asked about that service and was told if I go direct to Keltec and they do an exchange the distributor can not warrantee the replacement but they could if they do it through their inventory and later take it up with Keltec.

I like everything about the P17 for the exception that it wants to go bang in the other direction. My question is do I go direct to Keltec or my LGS distributor?

 

[silverback]

I would just go through kel tec. I hate the nd when a distributor says they have life time warranty and then give a run around. Print the pics and send it in . They will make it right asap.
Just spit balling but it looks like the case didnt completely seat in chamber.
I have to look at my p17 cases see if i have that occuring.

 

[lklawson]

I second working directly with Kel Tec. They'll make it right.

Those case bulges look like some sort of chamber issue. Never saw it on my P17 but I've seen it on 9mm cases from early Glocks.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[KTOM]

I agree with the above statements about case bulging, my guess would be a weakish recoil spring not bringing the round into full battery and or prematurely ejecting the rounds. But why would the firing pin release if not fully chambered???

 

[Keiichi]

I agree with the above statements about case bulging, my guess would be a weakish recoil spring not bringing the round into full battery and or prematurely ejecting the rounds. But why would the firing pin release if not fully chambered???

A couple of us actually investigated that question before - I’d have to go back through the thread history. The hammer can drop with the slide slightly open, though how open seems to be inconsistent.

That said, I’ve shot my copy with no issues both suppressed and unsuppressed.

 

[Gru7_Mech]

Lifetime Warranty....ohh yes, I did that once. What a lot of sellers do not tell you is... when they replace your original firearm that takes care of the warranty and the new gun does not get a warranty on it, and one can not be purchased

 

[buzzsaw]

Lifetime Warranty....ohh yes, I did that once. What a lot of sellers do not tell you is... when they replace your original firearm that takes care of the warranty and the new gun does not get a warranty on it, and one can not be purchased

As far as I know, Kel Tec does not roll this way. The only thing I don't like about Kel Tec's warranty policy is that it is not transferrable. After all, who else besides Kel Tec makes Kel Tecs?

Kel Tec has historically been good about not voiding the warranty for customers who have done work on their own guns. I sent in a very early PF-9 in which I had installed a Northwood trigger and had upgraded the hammer block myself. I think the only part they didn't replace was that aftermarket trigger. (IIRC, this started when I tried to buy a part, maybe an extractor spring. There had been many revisions since that gun was made, and Kel Tec seems to make an effort to update customers' guns when they come in for service of any kind.) That PF-9 they sent back does run great.

About those cases, I have a PLR-22 that does the same thing. At least one of my P-17s does, too. It's where the cutout for the feed ramp encroaches into the chamber and there is nothing to support the case there. It's still under pressure as the bolt starts to open, so the bulges are a little bigger than the area with no support. Also, when the case starts to expand into that gap, it's going to try to wedge it open, which forces the bolt to start opening earlier than it might with a fully-supported case.

The first and second pictures, taken with a borescope, are looking from inside the chamber at where the sides of the feed ramp encroach into the chamber on one of my P-17s. They are both this way. The arrows point at the ramp area. The third picture is looking straight down the feed ramp. The first two pictures would be off to either side. The inner surface of the chamber is to the right in all pictures.

buzzsaw

 

[KTOM]

As far as I know, Kel Tec does not roll this way. The only thing I don't like about Kel Tec's warranty policy is that it is not transferrable. After all, who else besides Kel Tec makes Kel Tecs?

Kel Tec has historically been good about not voiding the warranty for customers who have done work on their own guns. I sent in a very early PF-9 in which I had installed a Northwood trigger and had upgraded the hammer block myself. I think the only part they didn't replace was that aftermarket trigger. (IIRC, this started when I tried to buy a part, maybe an extractor spring. There had been many revisions since that gun was made, and Kel Tec seems to make an effort to update customers' guns when they come in for service of any kind.) That PF-9 they sent back does run great.

About those cases, I have a PLR-22 that does the same thing. At least one of my P-17s does, too. It's where the cutout for the feed ramp encroaches into the chamber and there is nothing to support the case there. It's still under pressure as the bolt starts to open, so the bulges are a little bigger than the area with no support. Also, when the case starts to expand into that gap, it's going to try to wedge it open, which forces the bolt to start opening earlier than it might with a fully-supported case.

The first and second pictures, taken with a borescope, are looking from inside the chamber at where the sides of the feed ramp encroach into the chamber on one of my P-17s. They are both this way. The arrows point at the ramp area. The third picture is looking straight down the feed ramp. The first two pictures would be off to either side. The inner surface of the chamber is to the right in all pictures.
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View attachment 57778
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buzzsaw

Interesting and insightful but nonetheless this concerning when this happens after only three magazines. A 22 round decides to go with the full Monty and lose its head. I’ve never had this happen in all the years of shooting 22s not saying it doesn’t happen this is a brand new pistol. My thinking is the feed ramp issue and may be a weak recoil spring prematurely extracting the case well under pressure could cause a case rupture and explosion

As far as I know, Kel Tec does not roll this way. The only thing I don't like about Kel Tec's warranty policy is that it is not transferrable. After all, who else besides Kel Tec makes Kel Tecs?

Kel Tec has historically been good about not voiding the warranty for customers who have done work on their own guns. I sent in a very early PF-9 in which I had installed a Northwood trigger and had upgraded the hammer block myself. I think the only part they didn't replace was that aftermarket trigger. (IIRC, this started when I tried to buy a part, maybe an extractor spring. There had been many revisions since that gun was made, and Kel Tec seems to make an effort to update customers' guns when they come in for service of any kind.) That PF-9 they sent back does run great.

About those cases, I have a PLR-22 that does the same thing. At least one of my P-17s does, too. It's where the cutout for the feed ramp encroaches into the chamber and there is nothing to support the case there. It's still under pressure as the bolt starts to open, so the bulges are a little bigger than the area with no support. Also, when the case starts to expand into that gap, it's going to try to wedge it open, which forces the bolt to start opening earlier than it might with a fully-supported case.

The first and second pictures, taken with a borescope, are looking from inside the chamber at where the sides of the feed ramp encroach into the chamber on one of my P-17s. They are both this way. The arrows point at the ramp area. The third picture is looking straight down the feed ramp. The first two pictures would be off to either side. The inner surface of the chamber is to the right in all pictures.
View attachment 57777

View attachment 57778
View attachment 57779

buzzsaw

interesting and insightful but nonetheless this is concerning when this happens on the third magazine, a 22 round decides to go full Monty and lose its head. I’ve never had this happen in all the years of shooting 22s, not saying it doesn’t happen, this is a brand new pistol. My thinking is the feed ramp issues and maybe a week recoil spring prematurely extracting the case well under pressure could cause a case rupture and explosion.

Regardless the pistol has been boxed up and sent off to Kel-Tec, so we will see how that turns out. Hopefully they will do right by me for I’ve never owned a Kel-Tec before And I really want this experience to work out, because there’s so much to like about this pistol. I’ll keep y’all posted.

 

[buzzsaw]

I agree with the above statements about case bulging, my guess would be a weakish recoil spring not bringing the round into full battery and or prematurely ejecting the rounds. But why would the firing pin release if not fully chambered???

KTOM,

A weak recoil spring can cause or make worse the bulges. I took both of mine to the range today, and checked for bulges on cases. The one that is having cycling problems has larger bulges. The other gun has smaller bulges, more of a print on the case instead of a bulge. When I swapped the recoil springs, the cycling problems moved with the spring, and so did the larger bulges, indicating that spring is weak. Also, when I shot some really hot ammo, Aguila Interceptor, which claims 1470 feet per second with a 40 gr bullet, I got sizable bulges and rounded case heads. It is probably not an appropriate ammo for these pistols without a heavier than stock recoil spring. I think you are right about your gun having a weak spring.

Your explosion might have been a bad round, either a defective case or an overcharge, maybe too much primer compound. Someone else on theKTOG, darkwriter77, recently posted about a case head failure he had on a revolver some time ago that caused an adjacent round to be set off, when it was not aligned with the barrel, leaving a squashed bullet on the frame of the gun. Fortunately, neither he nor the gun was seriously hurt.

The times I have needed to send a gun back to Kel Tec, they have always made it right.

buzzsaw

 

[KTOM]

Thanks folks for all the information and insights. I took the advice to deal directly with Kel Tec and not my LGS via their distributor and the "lifetime warrantee". I called Kel Tec and they sent me return postage and off the pistol went, Kel Tec was super about keeping me informed via email on the status of the repair and sent the gun back to me in about a week!! Replaced barrel assembly, bolt assembly, slide and magazine. Updated mag catch, and polished feed ramp. Was informed that slight case bulging on the feed ramp side is normal.

Needless to say I was super excited to get out to the range to fire the P17. After 96 continuous rounds the pistol had one failure to eject and I would say it was the ammo and all the gunk. At that point it was really dirty in there.

I'm impressed with this little gun, It's lightweight, accurate, and high capacity. But I'm most impressed with Kel Tec's customer service, especially in today's crappy standard of service. I've since researched Kel Tec and their history and have a better understanding of the innovation and technology they as a family business bring to the industry. I have full confidence in Kel Tec and am looking at getting a CMR30!

 

[tzcomp]

I have full confidence in Kel Tec and am looking at getting a CMR30!

The CMR30 is so much fun, I bought a second one when I saw a used one available (of course I have a PMR30 also and that adds to the fun).

 

[silverback]

Glad eveything turned out well. I had an early pmr30. Loved that gun but otped for the cp33 due to ammo cost
In fact i think the pmr30 is what brought me to the kel tec brand.
I trally want to see how the p15 shoots. I am looking forward to both versions.

 

[buzzsaw]

Thanks folks for all the information and insights. I took the advice to deal directly with Kel Tec and not my LGS via their distributor and the "lifetime warrantee". I called Kel Tec and they sent me return postage and off the pistol went, Kel Tec was super about keeping me informed via email on the status of the repair and sent the gun back to me in about a week!! Replaced barrel assembly, bolt assembly, slide and magazine. Updated mag catch, and polished feed ramp. Was informed that slight case bulging on the feed ramp side is normal.

Needless to say I was super excited to get out to the range to fire the P17. After 96 continuous rounds the pistol had one failure to eject and I would say it was the ammo and all the gunk. At that point it was really dirty in there.

I'm impressed with this little gun, It's lightweight, accurate, and high capacity. But I'm most impressed with Kel Tec's customer service, especially in today's crappy standard of service. I've since researched Kel Tec and their history and have a better understanding of the innovation and technology they as a family business bring to the industry. I have full confidence in Kel Tec and am looking at getting a CMR30!

Great that they got your pistol straightened out.

I called Kel Tec about mine and they sent me a couple of recoil springs which arrived in about two days. Replacing the spring fixed the issue with the cycling and it now shoots like a dream. I do wish they would put what I consider consumable parts like springs, extractors and firing pins for all models on their website for purchase. I certainly can't complain about getting the part I needed to fix the pistol, plus a spare, at no charge. Kudos!

buzzsaw

 

[tzcomp]

Glad eveything turned out well. I had an early pmr30. Loved that gun but otped for the cp33 due to ammo cost
In fact i think the pmr30 is what brought me to the kel tec brand.
I trally want to see how the p15 shoots. I am looking forward to both versions.

I'm buying the WMR for less than 9mm right now (18.00 compared to 21.00 for 50) so it's not that expensive. But compared to 22LR, I guess everything is expensive.

 

[silverback]

Even when ammo was normal priced i opted for 9mm amd 22lr. Seems to always be best bang for the buck.
Im cheap when its comes to high volume shooting. Lol....

 

[KTOM]

Even when ammo was normal priced i opted for 9mm amd 22lr. Seems to always be best bang for the buck.
Im cheap when its comes to high volume shooting. Lol....

I know, I know, I'm accused of being tighter than the dark on a tree. But there are a few calibers I don't have and 22WMR is one of them, sooo it's the CMR30 or a Rossi RS22. The CMR30 is a carbine so portable and innovative with capacity, RS22 is cheap, that word again. Although I saw someone shortened the barrel to 16.5" but limited to 10 rounds. Also the CMR30 has a mate with the PMR30, I like that. I'm just lookin for a poor mans P90.

 

[tzcomp]

I know, I know, I'm accused of being tighter than the dark on a tree. But there are a few calibers I don't have and 22WMR is one of them, sooo it's the CMR30 or a Rossi RS22. The CMR30 is a carbine so portable and innovative with capacity, RS22 is cheap, that word again. Although I saw someone shortened the barrel to 16.5" but limited to 10 rounds. Also the CMR30 has a mate with the PMR30, I like that. I'm just lookin for a poor mans P90.

I had the Remington 597 in 22WMR but it only had 7 round mags available and weighed like 20 lbs, so I gave it to my son when I got my first CMR30 and never looked back.

 

[silverback]

I thought the same thing about a companion to the cp33. Attached is My cp33 16 inch. I also run the 17 plus mag extensions. 6 mags so 300 rounds in a super light weight compact packadge. With a companion pistol that uses same mags. Whats not to like

I kept hounding kel tec for several years to no avail. Finally a forum member made a barrel for me.

Both the cp33 pistol and the rifle version need to be kept relatively clean to be run reliable

Kel tec really needs to bring out a cp33 companion rifle.

This is so much lighter and mags so compact that i have been contemplating selling my 1022.
I do have a Henry h001 and ruger lcr for old school companion set up.

As you can tell i have been going on a 22lr run as of late. My lcpii 22lr runs super great.

Next is the advantage arms conversion fory glock 17. Need to sell some excess gun parts for that purchase.

I havent been able to get to the range to wring out the cz457 trainer yet.

22lr is such a fun and inexpensive round to shoot.

 

[flareside_ford]

I thought the same thing about a companion to the cp33. Attached is My cp33 16 inch. I also run the 17 plus mag extensions. 6 mags so 300 rounds in a super light weight compact packadge. With a companion pistol that uses same mags. Whats not to like

I kept hounding kel tec for several years to no avail. Finally a forum member made a barrel for me.

Both the cp33 pistol and the rifle version need to be kept relatively clean to be run reliable

Kel tec really needs to bring out a cp33 companion rifle.

This is so much lighter and mags so compact that i have been contemplating selling my 1022.
I do have a Henry h001 and ruger lcr for old school companion set up.

As you can tell i have been going on a 22lr run as of late. My lcpii 22lr runs super great.

Next is the advantage arms conversion fory glock 17. Need to sell some excess gun parts for that purchase.

I havent been able to get to the range to wring out the cz457 trainer yet.

22lr is such a fun and inexpensive round to shoot.




View attachment 57951 View attachment 57952

Thats cool. Out of curiousity why the 16" barrel if you aren't putting an actual stock on it? Or is it just not done yet?

 

[silverback]

Thats cool. Out of curiousity why the 16" barrel if you aren't putting an actual stock on it? Or is it just not done yet?

I had an ar15 stock on it.

It was too heavy and bulky when folded.

Thats a MI ar15 folding stock mechanism and it has some weight to it as well.

The ar15 pistol tube provides same purpose as standard ar15 stock but drops weight and bulk.

It keeps weapon lighter and sleeker.
I am still able to shoulder weapon as normal. It brings eye closer to chargimg handle and nose doesnt come in contact with it.

Bring face closer to charging handle helped with gaining proper eye relief. When i mount the rifle my eyes are lined up with optic without the need to adjust.

Recently thought about shortening the barrel but i dont think it would make that much difference.

Besides this way i dont have to worry about brace or SBR issues.

Next is to find a place to copy handgaurd in aluminum.