[hiaku]

This is my first post. A friend and I went out to shoot my P-11 and it consistently shot 6-8" low. We were using sand bags at about 21'. Is there anyway to adjust this problem. I learned today after reading some other posts that the rear site moves side to side but nothing about the front site. We also shot his gun (not a a Kel Tec) and were all over the bullseye using the sand bags. Thanks for any help.

 

[TxCajun]

Kel-tec sells a site kit with sights of varying heights to adjust...

http://www.keltecweapons.com/p-11/p-11-accessories/p-11-sight-kit/

 

[hiaku]

Thanks for the info.

 

[boomerweps]

They are PLASTIC sights so draw a file across the top of the front sight, shoot a few sandbagged/bench rested rounds, check vertical deviation, rinse, repeat as needed. If you screw up, then buy the replacement sight kit.

 

[michael t]

This is my first post. A friend and I went out to shoot my P-11 and it consistently shot 6-8" low. We were using sand bags at about 21'. Is there anyway to adjust this problem. I learned today after reading some other posts that the rear site moves side to side but nothing about the front site. We also shot his gun (not a a Kel Tec) and were all over the bullseye using the sand bags. Thanks for any help.

I think both of you need to get some professional training . At 21' its not the pistol . It the one pulling the trigger. I am not the best shot and at 70 my eyes not best But I can shoot POA at 21' and about a 2 to 3" group with my PF-9 . 1 handed standing .

 

[PF9Newbie]

When you say "all over the bullseye" with your friends gun, I have to assume you mean you were on target? That said, the P11 is a true double action pistol, and as such has a very heavy trigger pull, much like double action revolver. Many shooters new to this pistol shoot low until they have learned and adjusted to the trigger pull (which is very different from most semi-auto pistols). Also, when you say you shot from sandbags, were you actually resting the pistol barrel/slide on the bags, or like many, just resting your hands. If it was your hands on the bag, with the gun not actually touching (except perhaps the grip bottom), then it is very easy to pull off target while trying to pull that long, heavy trigger through. So, no real surprise you would shoot low. Perhaps have a more experienced shooter try the pistol, or if that is not possible, then use a rest to actually rest the pistol slide/barrel on to help in keeping the sights on target while pulling the trigger. Then, if still shooting low, you can carefully file down the front sight a bit to raise point of impact (do this a very little at time), or like Txcajun suggests, even easier is to get a rear sight shim kit from Kel Tec to raise the rear sight as needed.

 

[Steve912]

I think both of you need to get some professional training . At 21' its not the pistol . It the one pulling the trigger. I am not the best shot and at 70 my eyes not best But I can shoot POA at 21' and about a 2 to 3" group with my PF-9 . 1 handed standing .

Might be, but my P-11 was about six inches low at 7 yds, and a foot and a half low at 25...and PF-9 was similar, but other direction (high). The vertical deviation on both pistols exceeded correction by replacement front sights. Both were rebarreled, and now both shoot low, but better than before.

 

[Dreamsinger]

My P11 shoots 6" low at 15' so I bought all the optional sight pieces thinking that some combination would correct the problem. When I got the parts I found that my P11 was already equipped with the lowest front sight and the tallest rear sight so I'm already at the limits of adjustment. Given it's purpose I don't expect it to be a tack driver but at close defensive distance 6" may not stop an attacker. Am I expecting too much or is there a fix?

 

[SARGE7402]

I think both of you need to get some professional training . At 21' its not the pistol . It the one pulling the trigger. I am not the best shot and at 70 my eyes not best But I can shoot POA at 21' and about a 2 to 3" group with my PF-9 . 1 handed standing .

Think perhaps they ought to purchase one of those trigger pull exercisers or if they don't have a lot of cash a cheap plastic cap gun from wally world and do about 50 - 100 DA trigger pulls a day til their trigger finger is strong enough

 

[magnut]

A lot of it is the overtravel on the trigger. Try experimenting with a rubber stopper of some sort behind the trigger that takes up all of the overtravel after the break. I went through this a long time ago with my first P11. It was hitting so low I couldnt belive it. Never had an issue with overtravel through my hits off so much in 30 years or so of shooting until I encountered this with the P11. I am not a bullseye shooter but 5-6" groups freehand with a ruger p85/ sigmas etc at 25 yards is pretty normal for me. Not with the P11. I was literally 5 yards away and hitting 10" low which was unacceptable for self defensive purposes.

I actually like heavy and long triggers Like the sigma, ruger P series, patriot 45, the legendary pull of the vp70z etc. Never had an issue with accuracy. So it was not about hand or finger strength, control etc. Keltec P11 system and clones just have strange triggers. I will say they are fairly accurate once you get rid of the overtravel. Not makarov type accuracy but solid enough for combat/self defense accuracy.

I ended up going with the RTK/galloway trigger because I wanted a straight flat trigger as wide as possible with almost zero overtravel. Once I did that might POI was right on with the factory sights. Its a great product that really brings the pistol to another level. 15 yards its easy to keep everything on a paper plate which is what I was looking for. not target accuracy but solid combat for a gun this small and light.

The trigger finger trainers are a good investment though in general. It just isolates your trigger finger and lets you practice training the dexterity in the hand which translates to any firearm shooting. Dont dry fire you keltec p11. Its not good for it.

you can play with different bullet weights too but its not going to make a huger difference. I just shoot 115grain standard pressure for the most part.

Dont give up on the P11 yet. IMO these guns are heavily underated. Other guns may be a little more accurate but I dont know of any with the versatility, rugged design, firepower, durability, parts availability etc. etc than the P11. Its keltecs best pistol by far. What few weak areas it has are easily dealt with.

 

[Dreamsinger]

[QUOTE="magnut
Dont give up on the P11 yet. IMO these guns are heavily underated. Other guns may be a little more accurate but I dont know of any with the , rugged design, firepower, durability, parts availability etc. etc than the P11. Its keltecs best pistol by far. What few weak areas it has are easily dealt with.[/QUOTE]

I'm not giving up on it, I just want the POI to match the POA a 15'. My trigger technique is solid.

 

[magnut]

try a trigger stop. Rig something up IE pencil eraser... whatever. Do a test fire and see what happens. I actually like the P11 trigger as its heavy and smooth. The overtravel just throws the gun off. I didnt think it would make a big difference but it was night and day for me.

if it doesnt help you your only out a little piece of rubber.

All my P11s and clones have this issue BTW. Sights are way off, shooting way low etc. No other pistols with long heavy triggers every gave me this issue. I think its just the design of the hammer/ main spring design. The arch of that factory trigger does not help either.

I did a few other things as well for a more secure hold but the trigger stop was by far the most helpful.

Lots of people have this problem with the P11 and overtravel. The weight and pretravel really dont have much to do with it. At worst it the same as shooting a Revolver. I have not had to mess with the factory sights yet on any of my p11s.

P11 is my favorite subcompact BTW. I like them more than my glock 26 since I resolved this trigger issue. For me it wins at every level with the exception of distance accuracy. Once you get a P11 dialed in they are pretty much at the top. Out of the box they are pretty lousy though. Hence the internet reputation. Glock 26 is simple too fat to be a comfortable secondary.

 

[RAT76]

Old thread, but for shooting low try lining the sight dots up in a pyramid instead of in line.

Also I don't squeeeeeeze the trigger, just a firm smooth pull thru.

Worked for me.

 

[magnut]

Old thread, but for shooting low try lining the sight dots up in a pyramid instead of in line.

Also I don't squeeeeeeze the trigger, just a firm smooth pull thru.

Worked for me.

did you ever try clearing up the overtravel?

I ask because I played with this pyramid setup but it was too awkward after useing sights traditionally on other pistols for so long. I was convinced the factory screwed up the heights. Then I cut a little rubber foot with an adhesive backing and just stuck it on the frame. Bingo... instantly the sights were withing 3" from POA. From there I went further and ponied up for the RTK flat trigger because I was suspecting the shape of the factory trigger itself was throwing me off. I put the RTK in, took up the overtravel and I was dead on.

This was on 3 different P11s. Seems the factory sets the guns up right but the shooter to trigger variable throws it out of whack. How people are getting tight groups useing the sights as intended is beyond me because I actually prefer heavier smooth triggers like the P11, patriot 45 etc. Seems to steady my hand more like shooting a DA revolver.

 

[Dreamsinger]

<snip>
This was on 3 different P11s. Seems the factory sets the guns up right but the shooter to trigger variable throws it out of whack. How people are getting tight groups useing the sights as intended is beyond me because I actually prefer heavier smooth triggers like the P11, patriot 45 etc. Seems to steady my hand more like shooting a DA revolver.

I get nice tight groups, they're just 6" low and perfectly centered at 15'. The pyramid fix isn't acceptable and I already have the lowest front sight and the tallest rear sight available installed. I get the same results with a Ransom Rest so it's not me, it's the gun. I love my other KT's and the size of my P11 makes it an easy carry but this deficiency is about to inspire a defection to a Glock 43 or a Ruger LCP II.

 

[magnut]

I get nice tight groups, they're just 6" low and perfectly centered at 15'. The pyramid fix isn't acceptable and I already have the lowest front sight and the tallest rear sight available installed. I get the same results with a Ransom Rest so it's not me, it's the gun. I love my other KT's and the size of my P11 makes it an easy carry but this deficiency is about to inspire a defection to a Glock 43 or a Ruger LCP II.

OVERTRAVEL TRIGGER STOP

try it out. Your having the same issues I had on three different p11s.

 

[Dreamsinger]

OVERTRAVEL TRIGGER STOP

try it out. Your having the same issues I had on three different p11s.

Immobilizing the gun on a Ransom Rest eliminates the trigger issue. Bore sighting proved it's the gun.

 

[magnut]

Immobilizing the gun on a Ransom Rest eliminates the trigger issue. Bore sighting proved it's the gun.

Yup, if you put it in a ransom rest it sounds like its the gun. Hope Keltec works it out for you..... Good luck. They are pretty good about taking care of customers so its a pretty minor inconvienience.

Only other thing I can think of is checking the barrel crown but I kind of doubt it since the bore sight showed it being off. KT probably just let one slip out.

 

[TxCajun]

We have seen this before, although it's fairly rare. Call them and ask what can be done. They could swap out the slide and/or barrel to something that shoots to POA. However, sending it in is not cheap, unless you have an FFL do it, since they can use US Mail.

I doubt it, but maybe if you sent them the slide and barrel (that's cheap), they'd send a replacement set. It can't hurt to ask.

 

[Dreamsinger]

Immobilizing the gun on a Ransom Rest eliminates the trigger issue. Bore sighting proved it's the gun.

The bore sight I used the first time was muzzle mounted. My gunsmith tried it with a breech loaded laser and damn if it isn't dead on. Obviously I'm the defect but on the plus side I'm getting tight groups and there isn't any left/right deviation, just a consistent low hit. I guess I'll have to work on the trigger *and* my technique some more. I carried a Glock 43 for a day and while I like the way it shoots it doesn't "carry" as well as the P11.