P-3AT vs. Model 60 S&W vs. NAA .22 M mini revolver

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by cherokeebd, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. cherokeebd

    cherokeebd New Member

    33
    Jan 24, 2011
    Snow's about gone. Sun's out. Thermomoeter reads 55 degrees.

    Here's the day's deal:

    9" paper plate at 3 steps. Hands hanging loosely at sides.

    * P-3AT loaded with 5 rounds (1+4) and carried in leather pocket holster in inside vest pocket of short Carhart jacket(that's where I'll carry it most this time of year).

    * Model 60 loaded with 5 rounds and carried in same jacket pocket as P-3AT.

    *NAA .22 Mag, loaded with 5 rounds, folded up in its holster/grip in left front jeans pocket where it most often rides.

    At the beep of the timer, I draw and engage the paper plate with 5 rounds.

    NAA will have to unfolded from plastic grip on the clock and must be fired SA or by holding back the trigger and thumbing the hammer. I predict it will be slowest. Mod. 60 will be fired double action as I've bobbed the hammer.

    Edited to remove the 10 seconds per miss statement.

    Range report to follow.

    It's 2:30 now, so darkness may keep me from shooting all the guns today.


    Cherokee
     
  2. cherokeebd

    cherokeebd New Member

    33
    Jan 24, 2011
    Re: P-3AT vs. Model 60 S&W vs. NAA .22 M mini revo

    Surprise, surprise. Can't shoot my Kel-Tec out of the vest pocket of my jacket a lick. First, I slowly walked through the steps of drawing, trying to figure best place to carry my gun concealed and the quickest and safest way to get it into action. It didn't take long to realize that the fingers of my right hand poked awkwardly into the top of the pocket holster. Without the pocket holster the little Kel-Tec turned every-which-way in my vest pocket to the point I laughed outloud and thought about the old monkey and the football story.

    My second choice of place to carry the P-3AT was in the right front jacket pocket without its holster. Again, it turns topsy-turvy if I walk a few steps before drawing. The Kel-Tec definitely can be put into play more quickly from my front trouser pocket than any other way I tried. The old slacks are baggy and loose fitting. The M-60 fared right well from there, too, but I believe it may be possible to use it from the jacket's vest pocket with a little practice.

    Bottom line is, if you aint tried it, you might be wise to locate a timer and give it a whirl, as I was terribly surprised when I did.

    S&W Model 60-9, 2" barrel, 3.2 gr. Bullseye/158 gr. RNFP, 38 Special case, handload----50 rounds fired at 3 yards, double action; 5 impacted outside the 5.5" circle around the plate's center, 1 missed the plate 1/2" or so high. I fired 5 groups , drawing from the vest pocket. My average time from beep to last shot, for 5 shots, starting standing with hands hanging relaxed at my side, was 4.58 seconds. My best time for 5 shots was 3.91 seconds and that was my last group. My worst was 5.25 seconds and that was my first run.

    My average 1st shot time was 2.85 seconds. My quickest draw, and my last, was 2.44 seconds. My slowest 1st shot time from the vest pocket was 3.13 seconds and that was my 2nd draw. It was the only time I drew from the 60's pocket holster. 1st draw was 3.08.

    For anyone not bored to death by now, see next post.

    Cherokee
     

  3. cherokeebd

    cherokeebd New Member

    33
    Jan 24, 2011
    Re: P-3AT vs. Model 60 S&W vs. NAA .22 M mini revo

    ...continued from the post above....

    I then concealed the M-60 in my front pants pocket and assumed the starting position I mentioned earlier. Here are the results:

    Average time for 5 groups of 5 shots: 3.72; fastest group: 3:39 (4th run); slowest group: 4.24 seconds (1st run). Avg. first shot time: 2.21 seconds; Fastest first shot time: 2.03 (last run; another first shot was 2.04); slowest first shot was 2.49. Edited to correct data.

    Did not find the miss until I changed the target, so don't know which run yielded the miss, but I'd bet it was during one of the faster runs. I am not an IPSC or IDPA shooter, so I don't really know what to think concerning my times from a pocket. I AM pleased with the accuracy of the M-60.

    I didn't do as well with the Kel-Tec. I missed the plate 9 times out of 50 shots and my times weren't as quick as with the M-60. Probably 80% of my shots hit below center. All misses were within the width of the plate but low, a few as much as 3" off the plate. Edited to add that the load was my handload of a 90 gr RN cast bullet and 2.9 gr Bullseye, seated to a depth of 0.945".

    A group fired with the gun holstered in the right front jacket pocket took 6.59 seconds with the first shot breaking at 3.69.

    After deciding those times were unacceptable, I pocketed the Kel-Tec in my rt. front pocket, the same one from which my best times came with the M-60. The Kel-Tec was drawn from there for the other 9 groups of 5 shots each. The average run time was 4.88 seconds. The quickest group was 4.52. The slowest was 6.21 seconds.The avg. 1st shot time was 2.77 seconds; the fastest 1 shot time was 2.48 seconds; the slowest was 3.19.  
     
  4. cherokeebd

    cherokeebd New Member

    33
    Jan 24, 2011
    Re: P-3AT vs. Model 60 S&W vs. NAA .22 M mini revo

    *The results may appear as skewed as they do because I'm a lifelong revolver shooter and a rank greenhorn with an auto.

    *The bright side of the P-3AT is that it once again functioned flawlessly for 50 rounds. It is too valuable to me for deep concealment to consider selling. I also know it is very accurate when aimed and fired slowly. My 1st shot with the 3AT was a low miss. After the first group, I slowed down enough to assure a first shot hit. That may also explain my slower times with the auto. I see the front sight on the 60 but can't really describe my sighting method for the Kel-Tec. Near the end of the day, I was just sort of pointing the muzzle at the top half of the target and enjoyed a few miss-free runs.

    *The Model 60 (stainless steel) is heavy. I may buy one of the lightweight revolvers for most of my concealed carry purposes. Maybe an LCR or more likely, an S&W, since I already have a set of J-frame Crimson Trace grips/sight.

    *Wonder of wonders--the wind was so bad today I couldn't use my tarp to catch .380 brass, but managed to only lose 1 and had 1 other casemouth to crack.

    * Didn't have time to shoot the NAA .22 Mag Mini Revolver.

    *Man, I'm glad springtime's a-comin. :D :D This is too much fun!

    Cherokee