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If any of my fellow KTOGers own a P64, aka "Vanad", I would like to know what you think of it.

People who own one seem to rave about them, just like P3ATs and Makarovs. But the notoriously heavy trigger pull makes me have second thoughts. It is common to buy a 17 lb. spring from Wolff and replace the trigger spring but it seems like you would still end up with a 17 lb. trigger pull.

Thank you so much.
 

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We have a P-64 and like it as 'just another pistol to own', as opposed to carrying it.
The P-64 is a DA/SA pistol with an external hammer. The external safety is a 'decocker' that lowers the hammer, as opposed to a safety that blocks the hammer. With the hammer down, the 1st shot is going to be DA trigger pull, like the typical KT pistol. Once the slide cycles the 1st round, all the remaining rounds in the mag will be SA with a very light pull. I can't speak for all P-64s, but mine is feather light.

If you buy a lighter spring to make the 1st shot lighter, that could turn the SA pull into a hair trigger. I know I wouldn't want mine any lighter.
 

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Dear Rob,

Thanks so much for the reply.

I'm curious why you don't actually carry the p64. Maybe it's because you have smaller and much lighter guns like the P3AT and P11.

You may already know this but there is at least one site dedicated to the P64.
www.P64resource.com

I just joined yesterday to learn more about it and so far the members have been friendly and helpful.

I was hoping you could do my a favor. I'd like to know the dimensions of the P64. This would be very helpful as none of my LGS stock it and I'll be taking something of a chance by ordering one online. I'm a believer in the 9x18 Mak cartridge so I'm very tempted to spend the money.

i love everything about the Makarov except its size. That's why I got into KTs and now own a P11 and a P3AT.

Regards,
Dave
 

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In the past, I investigated one of these, briefly, for a range toy. Because they're cheap, and kind of neat.

But I would not consider one for a CCW gun. Why? You've already answered that:

It is common to buy a 17 lb. spring from Wolff and replace the trigger spring but it seems like you would still end up with a 17 lb. trigger pull.
And for a CCW gun, I'd be asking the questions, "What is it about this gun that makes it more desirable than other CCW offerings?"

For me, I can't come up with anything that the P64 would excel at regarding CCW, compared to other choices. Possibly price, but that's about it. I think that mostly it would be a step down from other CCW choices in just about every regard. That's not saying it's bad, just saying that it's not better.

For me, Range toy: yes, CCW gun: no

Note that I do not own a P64, so take my opinions for what they are worth. I researched owning one, thought about it, and decided not to. Decent guns I'm sure, just don't meet any need I have other than "range toy". And I've already got a lot of those.
 

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If any of my fellow KTOGers own a P64, aka "Vanad", I would like to know what you think of it.

People who own one seem to rave about them, just like P3ATs and Makarovs. But the notoriously heavy trigger pull makes me have second thoughts. It is common to buy a 17 lb. spring from Wolff and replace the trigger spring but it seems like you would still end up with a 17 lb. trigger pull.

Thank you so much.
I did a side-by-side review of the P64 against the PF9

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f100/p64-vs-pf9-206019/

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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I just picked up a P-64 from a LGS with a customer service request on Thursday. I took it back on Friday with an attached note declining to service it and a recommendation to the customer to buy a Bersa if he wanted to stay on the inexpensive side and have a similar format. I would like to slap the counterman that sold him the P-64. The customer is elderly with limited hand strength. His request was for me to get the D/A under 9 lbs, the S/A under 4 lbs, and to get the mag release light enough that he could drop the mag.
 

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I Bought an east german Makarov for my first carry gun and fell in love with the (then) inexpensive 9x18 round (it was like 1000 rounds for $125 or something outrageous). I tried them all, but always went back to the Makarov. The original was just better made, more accurate, easier to work on, and had the best trigger of the lot. The cz82 is a close second and possibly a slightly better carry choice depending on your wants (mak is smaller, 82 holds more). The 64 has no real redeeming qualities .. its as reliable, but its trigger is worse, its more cheaply made (though still very well made, this is a testament to the quality of the others not a slam on the 64), and basically in every category falls flat compared to the Makarov unless it might weigh slightly less (I think it does).

The bersa is a cheaply made new gun that I like, but if I had a choice I would buy the Makarov over it all day.
I sold the 82 and the 64. I spent the money on target grips for my Makarov.

Size wise, I dunno. The web says 64 is 6.3 X 4.6 vs Makarov of 6.4 and 4.5 ... its virtually the same size. The 64 seems like it is slightly smaller but its not much at all.

My mak fit in my pocket, but it was tight, and it was a single stack of course. Its slick, nothing to snag, at least so it came out clean. My 938 is smaller, easier to control, and shoots a more potent 9mm round with a far better trigger. Or the 238 if you accept that 9x18 and 380 are effectively the same thing in the grand scheme of things. Modern pistols have a ton more to offer than these antiques... lighter weight, 9mm options, better triggers, night sights, beavertails, better grips/ ergos, smaller frames, ... the list goes on forever. These antiques are a good pick if you find one very cheap and have a very limited budget. That's about the single most compelling argument for them.
 

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The bersa is a cheaply made new gun that I like, but if I had a choice I would buy the Makarov over it all day.
I don't own a Bersa, but I have worked on them. The Bersa does have a much better trigger, and a factory warranty. My suggestion to the customer was based on that and the similarity of the two platforms, if that was of importance to him. I would have never walked out of the store with his pistol if I had known his wants. I picked it up in a batch, and didn't even look at it until I got to the shop and opened the gun case. I also like the Makarov, but the P-64 has no redeeming qualities, IMHO. I will do minor repairs on them, but anything even as demanding as a spring change, with parts and labor, is not worth the money unless the owner can do it himself.
 

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Yep. I am not knocking the bersa at all, but its a modern gun full of plastic and I think some aluminum or similar metals, and its just not going to be anything like a cold war era hunk of steel. Its not a fair comparison. My mak has run the better part of 10k rounds, might even be more, and has only moderate signs of wear (granted a lot of that was soft lead projectiles and modest hand loads, but the first few thousand were the cheap surplus ammo from the 90s). Most modern guns have some problems by that point in their life. Mine probably has a bit of barrel wear now, its not as accurate as it was but it still hits a skeet clay at 25 yards.

Backtracking just a little, but I would recommend the bersa or other 380s for non gun people. Even finding 9x18 can be a pain and a lot of non gun people just don't understand the ammo requirement. I saw a guy trying to feed 9mm to one.
 

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I just picked up a P-64 from a LGS with a customer service request on Thursday. I took it back on Friday with an attached note declining to service it and a recommendation to the customer to buy a Bersa if he wanted to stay on the inexpensive side and have a similar format. I would like to slap the counterman that sold him the P-64. The customer is elderly with limited hand strength. His request was for me to get the D/A under 9 lbs, the S/A under 4 lbs, and to get the mag release light enough that he could drop the mag.
<sigh> <shakes head>

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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