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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After F&B a couple weeks ago I finally got my new P3AT out to the range again and it was almost as bad as the first time I took it out.  

Lots of FTF's, though I think it's ejecting okay most the time..  Again, I had to pack it up with a live round stuck in it and the slide stuck back 1/4 inch just like last time.

It was still all PMC ammo and I didn't even really have a chance to swith to the blazer brass I had with me.   I did manage to shoot two whole mags without jamming too bad but the problem got progressively worse, so mag 4 and 5 never got emptied.

Time to send it back to the factory, right?  Will they go all over it and make it work or should I still be trying to do that?
 

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Cass, it could be that your gun has a problem that the factory can work out.  There is one other possibility.  At the risk of sounding sexist, these light weight pocket rockets are easily limpwristed, especially by ladies and inexperinced shooters in general of this type of gun.  A heavier gun like your Glock has more weight to absorb the recoil and thus has less muzzle flip.  An ultralight gun with snappy recoil must be shot with a stiff wrist so that the gun has a solid platform pushing back in order for it to cycle correctly.  

Has anyone else shot the gun and had the same problem?  The cycling of the gun needs stiff resistence from the shooter.  If you are getting a lot of muzzle flip, you may be limpwristing the gun which will result in a FTF.

http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a8/a8.html

Before you send it back, see if you can get a couple of experienced shooters who are familiar with limpwristing to shoot the gun.  If it still FTF, then send it back.  If not, work on your technique.  Keeping your wrists locked and pivoting at the elbow is the key.  Two Pistol Packer gives these tips for avoiding limp wristing:

Tips for locking your wrist:
 
TWO HANDED:
 
1. Place strong hand on grip with finger alongside trigger guard.    
2. Cup weak hand as if you were going to drink water from it.    
3. Rotate weak hand 45 degrees toward your body.    
4. Place palm against front of strong hand fingers, with thumbs nearly parallel.    
5. Line up on target and push forward with strong hand while pulling back with weak hand.    
  This will lock your wrist and prevent limp wristing.  
 
SINGLE HAND GRIP:    
   
1. Line up on target.    
2. strain hand forward as if you were trying to get the gun closer to the target.  
 
SHOOTING FROM THE HIP
 
  To shoot from close in with one hand, do the same straining forward, but lock your elbow so the hand can't actually GET forward. This works from 90 degrees or even from the hip--By tensing your arm muscles. You should practice both.
 
Packer.
Good luck and keep us posted.   8)
 

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cass said:
Time to send it back to the factory, right?
I use a thin film of Slick 50 One Grease (excellent for wheel bearings) on the slide rails, hammer interface and barrel lug after cleaning my P-3ATs with Break Free. To date I have not had a jam like you described. You may be reaching return territory, so read http://1bad69.com/keltec/shipping.htm just incase.

With the magazine out it sure seems like that slide should rack. Do you have anyone that lives near you than owns a P-3AT, so y’all could try firing each other’s P-3ATs?

Wilson – who’s wishing he could see a picture of that jam
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
TxCajun said:
Has anyone else shot the gun and had the same problem?  The cycling of the gun needs stiff resistence from the shooter.  If you are getting a lot of muzzle flip, you may be limpwristing the gun which will result in a FTF.
Limping can cause FTF? I thought it tended more to cause FTE's. It did eject, surprisingly.

But anyway I did have more problems attempting to shoot one-handed. I started out 2-handed and what I got was slight failure of the slide to close all the way which I could fix pretty quickly. So the cartridge was going almost all the way in. But still, I ended up with stuck live ammo after 2 mags.

Then I lose track..I should have let DH shoot it but he already had to take it apart, and I tried to keep an eye on all the flying parts but wouldn't you know it, that little ejector chunk DID fall out, and I tried to shoot it that way! (Though I can't say I know what that thing does.) Field-stripping the Glock certainly is less exciting isn't it.


Either way, we had to clear live ammo by taking it apart with and without the chunk.

DH's hands are so big I wondered if he could even handle it. So I kept shooting. Dumb I know, I could have found something out yeah. :-/

I'll wait and let DH shoot it before I send it back.
 

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Maybe we need a definition here...FTF could be
Failure to Feed; or
Failure to Fire

Feed could be caused by limpwristing. Fire, not likely. Cass, you say FTFs but then what you describe about jamming up sounds like a FTEject.

Maybe some more specifics, like where it is jamming, what it looks like when jams (ie. there is an empty casing hanging out the ejection port (or still 1/2 way in the barrel) and the new unfired round is bumping up against it), and what you did to "clear" or "fix" the situation so you could fire the next round (ie. a manual rack of the slide emptied the unfired round onto the ground and the next round slid right into place) could help us diagnose further.

-Scott (who doesn't think it worth buying a plane ticket for this dude yet)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
adamsesq said:
Maybe we need a definition here...FTF could be
Failure to Feed; or
Failure to Fire

Feed could be caused by limpwristing.  Fire, not likely.  Cass, you say FTFs but then what you describe about jamming up sounds like a FTEject.  
When live round is stuck partway in the barrel it's an FTF, no? You can look it the ejection port and see the thing hung up there a little crooked but you can't pull the slide back or push it forward.

I saw no stovepiping, and when I was able fix it early on no casing ejected because it already had ejected. The cartridge just moved ahead to where it was supposed to be and the slide closed all the way.

It's as if there is still some bump in the barrel that the cartridge runs into and stops. And these PMCs are not too smooth between bullet and casing so I can see how it could happen. Blazer brass doesn't look any better. I wonder if I should try shooting the Federal JHP I got for it? I was saving that for later.
 

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cass said:
DH's hands are so big I wondered if he could even handle it.
Large hands usually benefit from finger extensions so two full fingers are around the grip. Gray grip has a NAA and the black has a Bersa extension, which requires no alteration.

(click picture to enlarge)


Wilson – who’s thinking a $10-one-month vacation may be in order if finger extensions don’t do the job
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
the rest of the story

Yeah extensions would help.  

But TX cajun nailed it.  We went out today (in the rain) and DH started shooting it, this time with blazer brass.  No problems in 4 mags.  So I shot, had some problems, and yes it was FTE jams but dropping the mag was enough to help fix it.  

I realized I didn't have my hands completely on the grip, because it's so small even for me, so I backed off my trigger finger just to the tip  because it got in the way of my weak hand.  DH said he'd had to do that.  Anyway, once I got both hands really  wrapped around it I was okay.   We shot up the 50 rounds of blazer brass..I was a little afraid to go back to the PMC even if it was my own limping that was the problem.   I think I'll just put PMC behind me.

This was the first time I brought it home without a stuck round!   But I need a lot of practice with this thing before it can become any kind of SD carry for me.  Good thing I got a snubby too.

Thanks again guys!      :-*
 

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Good deal. 8)

A LOT of these go back when there is nothing wrong with them. I'm glad you didn't send it back for nothing. It is not necessarily an easy gun to shoot but you can surely master it with practice and good technique. As Wilson said, the finger extensions help a lot in gaining control of the little pocket rocket. Clean, lube, shoot, repeat. ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So where do I get the extension? I did a search on this forum on subject lines and didn't get much. Most the info on the site seems to be for the 9mm.

Do you need an extension for each mag? Or just one?
 

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cass said:
So where do I get the extension?
The Bersa Thunder finger extension (black above) is a direct replacement (part #MZ-FPK). The thinner but longer finger extension is a NAA Guardian (gray), which requires minor modification described on this page http://www.geocities.com/PocketGuns/P32ext.html (P-32 & P-3AT both accept it and there is a link for purchasing it). There are several places you can find the Bersa Thunder extension. Here’s one http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/parts_380lt_mat.php ( part 48 ).

Wilson – who’s sorry he didn’t offer more info :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wilson said:
The Bersa Thunder finger extension (black above) is a direct replacement (part #MZ-FPK). The thinner but longer finger extension is a NAA Guardian (gray), which requires minor modification described on this page http://www.geocities.com/PocketGuns/P32ext.html (P-32 & P-3AT both accept it and there is a link for purchasing it). There are several places you can find the Bersa Thunder extension. Here’s one http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/parts_380lt_mat.php ( part 48 ).

Wilson – who’s sorry he didn’t offer more info  :)
There's no P3AT-specific extension?
 

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cass said:
There's no P3AT-specific extension?
Kel-Tec makes extensions only for the P-11 and PF-9, unless you buy their ugly “one plus” P-3AT extension. While some folks like them, I prefer the hook style extension that gives me a better grip on the pistol. Scherer also makes an extension that fits P-3AT magazines. See http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2503;action=display;num=1169610970

Wilson – who’s given up on ever getting Kel-Tec to make P-3AT hook extension
 

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If the NAA extensions (which I prefer) are too long they can always be sanded down.



P3 with modified NAA extensions.
 

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BTW, just ordered a couple 2 in 1 convertible pocket holsters from K & D. One for me, one for my father in law. Those should help greatly with printing issues...I like the anti print panel. Decent price...only unfortunate thing is the 8-10 week wait, but no matter!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Wilson said:
Kel-Tec makes extensions only for the P-11 and PF-9, unless you buy their ugly “one plus” P-3AT extension. While some folks like them, I prefer the hook style extension that gives me a better grip on the pistol. Scherer also makes an extension that fits P-3AT magazines. See http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2503;action=display;num=1169610970
Ehh, looks like he's out of them. So you need one for each mag I take it. Good think I have only two.
 

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cass said:
Ehh, looks like he's out of them. So you need one for each mag I take it. Good think I have only two.
Yep! one for each magazine you wish to have an extension on the bottom. I have a dozen or so P-3AT magazines with the Bersa extension, half a dozen with NAA extension, half a dozen with the standard floor plate and one with that ugly Kel-Tec Plus One extension seen at the bottom of this page http://1bad69.com/keltec/p3at-fingerrest.htm .

Wilson – who’s glad he bought ten of those Bersa extensions when they were only $1 each ;)
 

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Cass: Check your messages below the banner ad.
 
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