Not a Happy Owner!

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by keninaz, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. keninaz

    keninaz New Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    6 weeks and 1 day from the time KT got my gun back for a 15% failure to extract the spend rounds from the barrel I got it back. I was expecting 8 or 9 weeks so I was pleased.
    It was even overnighted so that was nice.
    The problem I have is that they said they polished the ramp (I am not certain what that had to do with the problem I had) and test fired it OK.
    What they did not do was replaced the factory damaged buttonhead screw that nobody here can get a 2mm allen into. We tried new allens, worn ones, ball drivers, you name it.
    So one of the main reasons I sent it in was to have the factory replace the screw and check the spring and the extractor itself. Maybe they looked at the extractor but the defective screw that nobody here could get out without destroying it is still in place.
    The extraction problem from the barrel and the request to replace the screw were clear in the letter I sent.
    KT has some explain'n to do on Monday by phone.  :(
    In the meantime I will take it out and see if they fixed the problem I complained about with the FTEs.
  2. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Have you tried firing it? And have you tried someone else firing it? I am guessing they see many guns that are sent back for failure to feed and/or failure to extract that are actually a result of limpwristing. If they polished your ramp as a matter of course and it all worked okay they very well may have not looked further. Did you send a note detailing exactly what you wanted done, pointing out the screw and asking for it to be replaced?

    Obviously the miss is not acceptable, but understandable if it was in other ways working right for them.


  3. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    You may need to file a slot in the "frankenbolt" to remove it with a straight screwdriver.
  4. keninaz

    keninaz New Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    As stated the reason for return was well documented in the letter.
    And I am not limp wristing these little guns. I have two and they both had the same problem in the beginning. So why is one OK now and the other still had problems.
    I will test fire the repaired gun today but they are going to replace the damaged screw.
  5. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Let's hope all goes will with function and then you can slot the screw and remove it with the replacement that KT will mail you within a couple of days.  Like was said above, slot it and remove it and put a new one in and you should be fine.  

    KT doesn't seem to be very good at accuratly describing on work orders what was really done.  Kind of frustrating some times.

    I'm sorry if I missed that.  Edited: But I have gone back and read your opening post multiple times and still miss where that was stated.  Thats Rubb (next post).  I honestly read it three times and still missed it.  COFFEE, WHERE IS MY COFFEE??????

  6. Rubb

    Rubb Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    Here ya go Scott ;)

    Rubb...just helpin a brother out
  7. keninaz

    keninaz New Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    That's OK.
    I am on my 3rd cup now and things are getting better.
    Now to go test fire this one and see if they did fix the extraction problem.
    Most people seemed to have problems with the feeding.
    Both guns we bought had minor issues with that.
    Ours from the box did not like to take the expended round out of the chamber.
    Both have had 200 rounds through them. 3 different brands etc, all good ammo.
    Hopefully this is fixed on the second one now and I can deal with the screw.
    I cannot imagine how it got that way. They had to put in in at the factory yet when I first tried to insert the tool it would not go. It's like the 2mm allen head is damaged.
    Even the dealer could not get his tools to work. He would have slotted it and removed it there but needless to say he did not have a replacement for it and neither did I.
  8. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Too bad they missed the screw.  However, especially if the gun runs well, I would not send it back for that.  Call KT service on Monday and they'll send you some screws.  Slot and remove the other one if and when you must.  :-/

    P.S.  IMO, when they return a gun having only polished the feed ramp, that is a sign that they test fired it and could not find a problem.  These things push the envelope and a small difference in tolerances, etc can make a difference.  Many times I have seen an owner of two "identical" guns where one had limpwristing-induced failures and the other did not.  Polishing, proper lubrication and good technique may be all the difference you need. These guns can be ammo-selective too. And one may not like what another does. Experiment with some different rounds if you have not done so.  Just something to consider.  :-/
  9. keninaz

    keninaz New Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    OK, back from test firing.
    I fired 100 rounds through the reworked gun.
    I had a FTE on round #22 but from there on it was just fine, not like the 15% FTE problems it was having before.
    I will call them on the replacement screw Monday.
    It would have been easier if they had done it while it was there.
    Somebody missed it in the letter.
  10. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    Are you SURE they didn't

    Maybe they put a new one in for you and made it just like the one removed. When tighten screws to ensure they do not vibrate loose, It is very common practice to torque just past material yeild, since that would make the clamping force the greatest possible and deformation of the threads (and socket) will prevent it from loosening.

    If a fastern is in an application that requires routine removal, torque below yeild is used and a thread locking compound recommended. Since I like to take mine apart for the fun of it, that is what I did

    If you don't have any need to remove the screw, why be concerned.
  11. keninaz

    keninaz New Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    Sorry, been doing mechanical work all my life using lots of different tools. Made my living with tools doing detail work.
    Quite skilled at it too.
    The first thing I did when I got it back was check the screw as it did not appear to have been changed. The tool fit or inability to seat into the socket head were identical. I am quite familiar with what a stripped head feels like but it can't be stripped when you can't put the proper tool into the slot it's designed to go into!
    It's almost as if the gun were dropped? and the screwhead damaged. I only had it some 7 days before I shipped it and I bought it new.
    And I always hated rework. That is work done by someone else that I have to fix becuase of their incompetence. Just picky that way.
  12. engineer88

    engineer88 New Member

    Nov 26, 2007
    Let see, last time I went to the range I shot 50 FMJ and 94 JHP's. Round 110 and 121 were FTE (The FMJ oddly enough, but I am so sure it was dirty by then). Since I only carry 1 spare mag, failures at over a dozen shots do not concern me at all. And yes I meant 94 JHP's, not FMJ. No, I never Fluffed and Buffed. The only thing I ever did was trim a little flash off the frame.

    You are among the few percent that do have issues I am afraid. I know a LOT of people who have zero issues in 500+ rounds. I hope the extractor swap fixes it for you.
  13. KS.G36

    KS.G36 Guest

    Sounds like the Harley-Davidson "mechanics" advice on head bolts many years ago. ...

    Question: "How much torque do I put on these head bolts?"

    Answer:  "Crank em til just before the bolt heads pop off!"

    Question: "How do I know when they are about to pop off?"

    Answer:  "You get a feel for it after you pop a few." ::)

  14. keninaz

    keninaz New Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    Yes I remember when I had to replace an oil pump at an early age on my car. I did not understand the concept of over torquing the oil pans bolts. But when you snap a couple of them off and then have to drill and remove them you get it really quick.
    I cannot yet understand why some people do not understand the concept that the head of the screw is damaged to the point that the tool does not insert.
    It's not a matter of the tool slipping once it's in place.
    It's that you can't get the tool into the slot.
  15. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    "Socket" refers to the hez indentation in the head of the button head screw in which the allen key fits.

    I definately do not know what yours looks like, so whether the allen twisted or they took a hammer and bradded it over
    was the reason for your damage, but mine appeared to be the allen key twisted in the socket from the factory.
  16. Nakanokalronin

    Nakanokalronin Active Member

    Apr 7, 2007
    When I sent my slide in for a peening issue awhile back I wrote a good sized letter that I would not like to get another slide with a thin guide rod area again since I've read it was a common issue and to please check it out before shipping it back to me. (Remember this was awhile ago so who knows now) What I got back was a new slide with a thin guide rod area so right away a washer was put in and no issues since but I was kind of upset and figured they were trying to get rid of the bad batch. I don't think they really do exactly what you write but work on whatever the main problem is.
  17. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    I think Keninaz now has the right ideal on how to get KT to read enclosed letters ;)

  18. engineer88

    engineer88 New Member

    Nov 26, 2007
    Oops, wow! I totally posted this on the wrong thread! Sorry! :-[

    Just make sure she is lubed up good before you use her. ;)

    Wow that sounded bad. :eek:
  19. keninaz

    keninaz New Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    OK I called them and they will send me the screw so I can replace it myself.
    They just missed it in the letter I am guessing.
    He said they see so many they sometimes assume what's wrong from the few words they do read and just fix it.
    They just did not read far enough in my case to find the second problem.
  20. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    A couple of cautions from an ol’ Buttonhead.

    1. Always request a new buttonhead, extractor and extractor spring if you are ordering any of these parts (it never hurts to have spare parts even if its not needed now).
    2. If you cut a slot in the buttonhead with a Dremel cutting wheel, be careful and have something protecting the slide if possible so as not to gouge your slide.
    3. If Loctite was used on the buttonhead, heat it to about 160° with a hairdryer before attempting to remove it.
    4. If you own more than a dozen or two SG P-3ATs invest in a high quality 2mm (flat not ball) hexdriver even if it seem really over priced.

    Wilson – who’s been there, done that :-[