No ****, there I was. (A story of rust)

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Static, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Static

    Static New Member

    24
    Sep 23, 2010
    Brand new P3AT 2nd gen, out of the box. Cleaned it, lubed it using some CLP, and been carrying it in the pocket for a week or two. A little bit of humidity combined with my own salty sweat has already brought out a bit of rust in the slide (exterior mostly) and the front of the slide rails. Alas, I bought the gun for a reason, and will not quit pocket carrying. I brought out the bronze brush, wiped everything away, and here we are. The moral of the story is, lube the exterior of your weapon if you are pocket carrying. Also, I have a bit of dark discoloration on the top of my barrel, but it's definitely not rust, and will not brush or wipe away... hints? I'll provide pics if needed.

    TL;DR Version: Guns rust if you don't oil them.

    EDIT: Can anyone tell me if the pits are normal in the metal they use? I've got an eye for that kind of thing, and I'm pretty sure it's not caused from a week or so of carry... but I'd think that kind of texture would be very inconsistent as far as slide travel.
     
  2. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    Welcome to KTOG.

    You have a few options to make the prevention of rust easier, refinish with Durakote, nickle or you can apply a coat of wax. I use the wax every time I clean my P3 and I haven't seen a bit of rust after months of pocket carry.

    Check out post #19 on this link.

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1241920077/15#15

    If you want to refinish look up Golden Loki for Durakote or Jack F. for nickle plating. Both do good work from what I'm told and aren't expensive.

    CJ
     

  3. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    same here as for using wax. I wipe down with a pariffin base lube
     
  4. Static

    Static New Member

    24
    Sep 23, 2010
    I've used wax based lubricants at work, for really large screws and whatnot, but my main issue with that would be gumming up the firing pin well/bolt. I don't think I'd mind it a bit on the exterior and slide components, however. I'm also a bit skittish as far as tearing the weapon down past a field strip, but I'ma have to after today's shoot.
     
  5. Toforo

    Toforo New Member

    769
    Feb 10, 2010
    Columbia, MO
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel New Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    Eastern Kansas
    As I understand it, the tiny pits on the parts are caused by tumble polishing them in ceramic media to remove machining burs & sharp edges.

    It doesn't hurt anything, and in fact gives a place for oil or wax to get a foothold.

    The color differences on the barrel chamber area and slide locking area right in front of the ejection port are caused by induction hardening of the parts in those high stress areas.

    In case you missed the link CJP32 posted, see Post #19:
    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1241920077/19#19

    BTW: CLP is a poor rust protectant for pocket carry.
    It wipes off too easy, and it ain't all that great to start with.

    rc
     
  7. lklawson

    lklawson Well-Known Member Supporter

    Oct 13, 2009
    Huber Heights, OH
    Not to be contentious, but multiple independent tests conclude that Breakfree CLP is among the better treatments for preventing rust. I can post links to about 6 or so different tests if you'd like.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel New Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    Eastern Kansas
    Everybody has an opinion, and thats just mine.

    I started using Cleans - Lubes - Protects when Uncle Sam issued it to me in little green bottles about 40 years ago.

    I still use it for certain applications.
    But rust protection for my pocket guns isn't one of them.

    There are also better bore cleaners.
    As a result of my own testing, I also believe there are much better lubricants available.

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/Y...action=display&num=1119987390&start=0

    rc
     
  9. torrent

    torrent New Member

    Dec 18, 2006
    CLP hasn't changed in 40 years either. That stuff actually pulls the carbon right out of the metal, at least that's what I've been told. ::) I hate using it for anything other than starting fires with and it isn't even great for that. Stick with a heavier wax base that wear off so easily and invest in a good pocket holster that blocks sweat. Uncle mikes makes a good, inexpensive one that works well for that.
     
  10. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    I wonder, is that a misunderstanding of a statement that "CLP soaked in a bore will remove carbon".  This being carbon in the form of surface contimination and not diffussion of carbon from the steel

    if you have a source, I would apprecaite...in the mean time I'm googling for any confermation of decarbunization
     
  11. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    You didn't mention whether or not you used a holster. A holster will keep the sweat and moisture off and is much safer than no holster.

    Bobo
     
  12. forestranger

    forestranger Active Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    NC
    Ditto! My first gen has held up well with a weekly spray of Rem oil and a spray inside nylon pocket holster.
     
  13. Static

    Static New Member

    24
    Sep 23, 2010
    Well, ahem... yes. The problem being, I'm more than likely going to use a pocket-carry, considering the most distance I'm ever exposed is from my car to where I'm going. I don't mind one bit carrying the weapon with a round chambered in my pocket. I just make sure the only thing in that pocket is the handgun, and I seat it whenever I get in the car or before I leave the house, while I'm checking for keys, phone, etc.

    As far as the lubrication goes, I'm an M-16/M-4 kinda guy, and just being VERY acquainted with an M-249, I've never really noticed any problems with CLP as far as my Mil-weapons go. Does that make me a creature of habit? Yes. But I'm definitely not afraid to go off of the experience of others, either. It'll just take me an ounce of grit to take some 400-grit to a few areas and apply floor wax on my gun. That's not sarcasm or scoffing, by the way. I'll try anything once.
     
  14. lklawson

    lklawson Well-Known Member Supporter

    Oct 13, 2009
    Huber Heights, OH
    I appreciate the friction test. Thanks.

    Here's the promised corrosion tests.

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=...nic__Knowing_the_Limits_of_Rust_Preventatives

    http://www.lesjones.com/2007/01/29/gun-lubricants-and-protectants/

    http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

    http://www.accuratereloading.com/rustest.html

    http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

    http://cbd.atspace.com/articles.html (this last is my own set of tests)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  15. lklawson

    lklawson Well-Known Member Supporter

    Oct 13, 2009
    Huber Heights, OH
    I wonder, is that a misunderstanding of a statement that "CLP soaked in a bore will remove carbon".  This being carbon in the form of surface contimination and not diffussion of carbon from the steel

    if you have a source, I would apprecaite...in the mean time I'm googling for any confermation of decarbunization[/quote]
    I don't see how it could be possible.  The carbon in steel is locked inside the crystalline matrix, literally surrounding each carbon atom with 8 bonded iron atoms (IMS).

    With sufficient heat it is possible to expand the crystal matrix a let the carbon atoms "migrate" which would allow some of them to completely out (this is one way that steel is "tempered" after being "hardened") but I don't see any topically applied chemical being able to do that for anything but the thinnest depth of the surface, never-mind a CLP type product being able to do it at all.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  16. Picatinny_Pete

    Picatinny_Pete New Member

    Sep 2, 2009
    Hi RC,

    The stuff in the green bottle was RBC (Rifle Bore Cleaner), it was a chlorinated oil, and a miserable lubricant, and had very limited protection. CLP wasn't used until around 1983 and was so much better. Neither cleaner will protect against the salts in corrosive fouling or in your sweat though. Ballistol a WWI formulation will function like CLP and also clean away corrosive salts. I use the balllistol to clean up older ammo, and then finish with CLP the combination seems to do the job well.

    Best Wishes: :)
     
  17. lklawson

    lklawson Well-Known Member Supporter

    Oct 13, 2009
    Huber Heights, OH
    I've been taking ammonia (windex) with me to do a quick swab-down of my bbl & internal surfaces of my CZ52 after shooting corrosive surplus. When I get home I do a thorough clean, including running hot tap down the bbl then heat-drying. I finish it off with a standard good cleaning with CLP.

    In your opinion, should I toss the ammonia to the side & take Ballistol to do a swab down with instead? They ain't make'n CZ52's anymore and I want to keep mine tip-top.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  18. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    When I suggested a holster I meant a POCKET holster. I understand exactly your carrying in your pocket and why you do - that's how most people carry a P-3AT. Even so, an inexpensive pocket holster like a Desantis Nemesis will keep your gun dry and help to keep whatever protection you choose to use from rubbing off so quickly, and it will also be safer with the trigger covered by a sturdier material than your pants' pocket.

    Bobo
     
  19. Picatinny_Pete

    Picatinny_Pete New Member

    Sep 2, 2009
    Kirk,

    There's nothing wrong with the way you are clearing your CZ, but Windex may cause problems later. Back in the 1920's and 30's the US Army used to use ammonia water mixes to clean the bores of corrosive powder & jacket fouling, and eventually ended it because if left too long it was destructive to both the bore and the finish. Kirk, index isn't as bad as ammonia, but I do think it will take its toll over time. Most of the 7.65 Tokarev surplus ammo out there is still corrosive so using Ballistol wouldn't be bad especially since it's non-toxic. I'll bring some with me the next time I'm over, and let you have a few ounces to play with it really is neat stuff. :)

    Best Wishes:
     
  20. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    Aint that every where, all the time (except while in car) ;)