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Hey folks,

With some small hand files and 15 minutes of free time, my smileys are a thing of the past.

The P3AT works just as well, probably better, and the following rounds are not getting dinged.

Great info here and over at ktrange!

Chris
 

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he is talking about "smileys".the kel tec p3at has such a short feed ramp that with some guns the bullet hangs up at the bottom denting the nose of the bullet and making it look like a smiley :)


i don't know if this is true but i heard that in one case the bullet was unseated and shoved into the case creating extreme pressure and blowing the rim of the cartridge also blowing the mag out?????
 

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Sorry Ranger. The use of non-standard terms here can cause those of us who know a feed ramp as a feed ramp and not a "smiley" to get a little confused when you boys pull spit out of the air and call it a friggin' rose.

When you have a failure to feed because the bullet is incompatible with the feed ramp geometry (or you say that is the cause) that does not give you license to INVENT terminology. If you don't want those of us who actually know a feed ramp when we see one to get snotty, then don't do that, otherwise we are highly likely to ask you whatinhell you mean since you don't seem to know a feed ramp from a smiley.

It causes us to wonder what else you don't know.
 

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Black_Prince said:
Sorry Ranger.  The use of non-standard terms here can cause those of us who know a feed ramp as a feed ramp and not a "smiley" to get a little confused when you boys pull spit out of the air and call it a friggin' rose.

When you have a failure to feed because the bullet is incompatible with the feed ramp geometry (or you say that is the cause) that does not give you license to INVENT terminology.  If you don't want those of us who actually know a feed ramp when we see one to get snotty, then don't do that, otherwise we are highly likely to ask you whatinhell you mean since you don't seem to know a feed ramp from a smiley.  

It causes us to wonder what else you don't know.  
To be perfectly clear here, he was talking about "smileys" caused by the feed ramp.  Not refering to the feed ramp as a "smiley".

In addition failure to feed was not mentioned.

Here is a pic of a couple of very minor "smileys".



As I said very minor.  Actually more of a ding than a true smiley.
 

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Black_Prince said:
Sorry Ranger.  The use of non-standard terms here can cause those of us who know a feed ramp as a feed ramp and not a "smiley" to get a little confused when you boys pull spit out of the air and call it a friggin' rose.

When you have a failure to feed because the bullet is incompatible with the feed ramp geometry (or you say that is the cause) that does not give you license to INVENT terminology.  If you don't want those of us who actually know a feed ramp when we see one to get snotty, then don't do that, otherwise we are highly likely to ask you whatinhell you mean since you don't seem to know a feed ramp from a smiley.  

It causes us to wonder what else you don't know.  
BP - Not meant in any way as an attack but rather a polite attempt to save you from some embarassment and people wondering about what else you do not know, I would respectfully suggest that you might want to back out of this discussion before you have to "change feet".    

What a smiley is, means, and what causes it is very standard terminology around here.  There are pictures, theories, modifications, fixes, etc. all here.  It just takes is a simple search to realize that his post would generally be understood by anyone with common knowledge "around here".  He did not in any way "invent" anything.  

-Scott

How about a more descriptive pic:
 

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Black_Prince said:
that does not give you license to INVENT terminology.
Everyone please calm down!

Nobody invented any new terminology.

The term "Smiley" has been around & in common use on both KTOG & KTRange, and others, far longer then I have been a member of KTOG.

Go here to learn all about the problem.
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/smiley.htm


rcmodel
 

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"Smiley" is a very common term used on this and other forums which describes the smiley shaped indentation on the nose of a bullet that results from the bullet contacting the base of the feed ramp during feeding.

This was a very common occurrence mostly with older P-3ATs. The fix for smilies was worked out by members of this forum and the other Kel-Tec forum. As a result Kel-Tec used this information to redesign the feed ramp on the 2nd generation version and the problem has since been almost totally eliminated. That said, it did not completely eliminate smilies on all 2nd generation guns. I know this because my 2nd generation P-3AT had slight smilies when I first got it. I did a very minor "rampectomy" (another term common to this subject) and that stopped the smilies on my gun.

If you do a search on the word "smiley" or "smilies" or "smileys" and "rampectomy" you will find many thousands of posts on the subject along with its possible effects and remedies.

Edit...
Dang it RC you did it to me again! You beat me with a much better and less wordy answer again - this getting old about now! ;D

Holy crap! not only did RC beat me, RAT and adams did too! I guess it just takes me too long to compose a simple post - I'll blame it on old age. ;)
 

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PM - I tried to be very nice and constructive with my comments, really I did.

Bobo said:
This was a very common occurrence mostly with older P-3ATs. The fix for smilies was worked out by members of this forum and the other Kel-Tec forum. As a result Kel-Tec used this information to redesign the feed ramp on the 2nd generation version and the problem has since been almost totally eliminated. That said, it did not completely eliminate smilies on all 2nd generation guns. I know this because my 2nd generation P-3AT had slight smilies when I first got it. I did a very minor "rampectomy" (another term common to this subject) and that stopped the smilies on my gun.
Bobo - see my pic above - that is from a brand new recent model P3AT!  Bullet dug out of sand.

-Scott
 

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I think it is the Spring Weather we have been having lately.

My wife just keeps adding to the "HoneyDO" list everyday, and it's making me Cranky Crankier. ;D


rcmodel
 

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RAT76
Those two in your picture are not feed ramp smileys.
Yours are not feed-ramp related at all.

Those straight-across, off-center lines are caused by the bullets smacking the sharp front edge of the frame under recoil. I call them the "Pursed Lip" Smileys, as opposed to the real "Smiley" Smileys, which are curved, and in the center of the bullet nose.
(Like the picture adamsesq posted below yours.)


You can round & polish the sharp frame edge slighty, and make it better, but you will never get rid of it completely.


rcmodel
 

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Actually it is the front edge of the mag in this case.  The black is worn off the mag lip. May have been helped along by a burr which formed on the bottom edge of the feed ramp from smacking the frame.  See post in P11/40 forum. ;)

But you are right.  These are not smileys.  the outside corners do not turn up. :)
 

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Well, I thought we were talking about P3AT's in the P3AT forum when I posted that.
Then I re-read your post in P-11 forum and you did say it was the mag in that case.

Bottom line.
If it is doing this in a P3AT, it is the frame.
In the P-11, it is the mag.


rcmodel
 

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Could be the frame in the P11 also. Everything (mag lip, frame corner) is in pretty much the same spot.
 
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