Has anybody ever used this stuff? I bought a box today because it was time to change out my carry ammo and I really didn't want to get another box of Federal Hydra Shok because the bullets started turning to a dull color while still in my gun. Being a big fan of Win. I decided to pick up a box and see how they worked in the gun. I tested several rounds without any problems and they seemed to be just as snappy as every other ammo is in this little gun. Besides that they don't have "low recoil" printed on their box like the Federal stuff did. Anyway, my gun likes them. What do you guys think about this ammo? http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/supreme-elite/bonded-pdx1/Pages/default.aspx
I have shot some of this ammo out of my S&W 642, 38 Special +P (130 gr)...Impressive ..The bullet configuration, just looking at it, remindes me of Winchester Ranger bonded ammo... I would not hesitate to try some in a .380, if I could find it....
I know the larger calibers passed the FBI tests, not sure about 380, I really doubt it would. For 380 I still prefer the DPX with Barnes bullet. I seem to remember someone saying that it's very similar to the Win T bullet but I couldn't say for sure. I think it's pretty good stuff and I bought some for my 38spl recently. CJ
I haven't seen any in .380. I might pick up some for the P3AT but will probably stick with the Hydra-Shoks that I have been carrying as long as I can find them because there are plenty of tests (Brassfetcher.com plus several informal, independent tests like Old Grampa have done which gave results I like. Well, that and I have already invested the money and time to make sure HS works in my P3AT. That said, I have some of the PDX1 in .38+P that is my current carry ammo for my snubbie .357 and some in 9mm+P (124 grain) that is my carry ammo in my P95.
Yes +P for my snub, I don't think they make a standard pressure. I found it at Cabela's for about $22. CJ
I found mine at Wally World for about the same price..I noticed they had other calibers available...No .380...
Walmart is where I got both the .38+P and the 9mm+P. Walmart prices actually vary by a buck or two in this area depending on location but, iirc, they range from $18.xx to $19.xx a box. The Wally where I use the pharmacy has actually been stocking that ammo in .38+P for quite some time. In fact, that is the first place I ever heard of it, a few months before I saw anything about it on Outdoor Channel or Sportsman's Channel gun related shows. That is one reason I started looking into the stuff then, when the info I found looked good, decided to try it out for myself. There are two Walmart locations on my way home from work and several more that are conveniently located to the places my wife and I go on weekends. No running around trying to find my SD ammo - just pick up a box or two while I'm at Walmart and get a better price. No .380 in that make at the local Wally locations yet, though. In fact, the only .380 ammo I consistently see at the Walmart I visit most is TulAmmo.
The WM I shop at doesn't carry it either, at least they've never had it when I was looking. A small LGS had a few boxes for $14.95. Not a bad price for what it is I don't think.
What does this bonded ammo really do over the best JHPs? It just seems like it would really break up on impact, and .380 doesn't have much energy to spare for penetration...maybe I'm missing something.
Actually I see, it's not the pre-fragmented type I thought...but still begs the question, is it really better than the JHPs?
The main advantage to bonded ammo is the jacket will not separate from the lead core. This will generally lead to better penetration through barriers and better weight retention. The bullet will be a more "consistent" performer. It's not a brand new idea just something that is becoming more common, Gold dots are a good example of a more common bonded bullet. I would steer clear of any "pre-fragmented" ammo in pretty much any caliber. CJ
I don't understand the question, "Better than JHPs?" The PDX1 is a JHP. It is simply a line of bonded (meaning the jacket is bonded to the core to prevent separation) JHP from Winchester which is, apparently, what the FBI has chosen for their carry ammo (in the larger, service calibers) because (in those service calibers) it performed so well with getting good penetration and expansion even when fired through various barriers such as windshield glass, etc. To me, pics I have seen of 'perfectly expanded' PDX1 rounds look a lot like the old Black Talon and I suspect that it is the latest update of that technology. I have also read claims that PDX1 is simply a civilian labeling of the latest update of the very same ammo sold to law enforcement in the Ranger bonded line - the biggest difference being that Ranger comes in fifty round boxes while PDX1 comes in twenty round boxes. I actually have to wonder if the FBI actually buys the PDX1 labeled ammo or if they simply buy the same ammo under the Ranger label (which would kind of make more sense.) Anyhow, personally I like PDX1 for my P95 and for my snubbie because I believe it is at least as good as any other premium JHP in those calibers and Walmart stocks it in those calibers (as well as .40 and, sometimes - I think, .45) for a price that is as good as or, usually, better than other premium JHPs at other retail outlets. That said, I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to get PDX1 in .380 (which, as indicated in previous posts, I have never seen at Walmart) instead of the Hydra-Shoks I have been carrying. In fact, I'd want to see some good tests with positive results from a P3AT sized gun before I would consider switching. I tend to think that guns like the P3AT have a smaller margin for error when it comes to effectiveness than something in 9mm or even .38 Special so I tend to be a little more concerned about the ammo I use for SD in the P3AT. Also, as other ammo types (Golden Sabers come to mind) seem to have shown, just because a certain ammo works well or even exceptionally well in other calibers doesn't mean it will work well in .380 or in the P3AT.
The OP piqued my curiosity so I began looking around for more info. I came across a post on another forum (I'm not a member there but didn't have to sign up to see the post) from someone who had done an informal test of the PDX1 in .380 as compared to the Golden Sabers he normally carried: http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/1...dx1-bonded-380-95-gr-personal-protection.html
Interesting...I use 9mm +P Golden Saber's in my S&W 908 and GS 357 mag's in my S&W 686's...They expand very well... No doubt shooting 3' in the way described at the matter described, the Win looked to expand more...
That's part of the reason I'd want to see more test results with the PDX1 from P3ATs, LCPs, etc. before I would decide to switch to it for carry ammo. I have little doubt that the PDX1 does fine in the 9mm +P loads or in the .38 Special +P loads (even from a snub) but performing well from a short-barreled .380 seems to be another thing, entirely.
Yeah I agree that these mouse guns in .380 are different than a full sized 9mm, or even a full size .380. Would be nice to see definitive results, but for some reason it looks like definitive is almost impossible! Anyway, my question was mostly from ignorance of exactly what this ammo was. I've been reading more about bonded ammo, and it looks good, but just too hard to tell. Maybe it's better to use FMJ for .380 and make sure you get enough penetration....*shrug*
