[Gun Carrying Liberal]

Hey all,

First post here, but I've read numerous posts in the SU 16 and SUB2k boards while I was debating buying one of the two. Finally pulled the trigger, so to speak, about two weeks ago, on a never fired but pre owned su16 (I believe it's a B)that happened to be sitting on the shelf at my LGS.

A chronic foot wound and mandatory bed rest has prevented me from hitting the range til earlier today, but finally got to break her in. It's a fun little rifle, certainly quirky, and I had two fellow range-goers ask what it was, with bemused interest. I think the "sport utility rifle" name that Kel-tec used is quite appropriate.

I found I was grouping low and right consistently, even when attempting to correct for that. I'm not accustomed to the iron sight style that is present on the rifle, so that may be a factor. Not sure if rear sight is oem. Also, that barrel got HOT quick! Fortunately this forum had led me to expect that, and other hangups, and I was able to work through them without issue. Put about 150 rds downrange (with no FTE/FTF, which is certainly nice.)

Overall, I'm satisfied with the purchase for the price I paid, for a light trunk gun/SHTF emergency compact .223/plinking rifle. Just wanted to share my first range experience and thank you all for the detailed, thorough posts and stickies covering many of the common teething issues and pros/cons of this weapons platform.


P.S. As far as cheap aftermarket optics, any particular recommendations? Only spent $350 on the gun, and I consider it a 2 Moa weapon (which is fine for what it is), so I'm not looking to spend a fortune trying to milk accuracy out of a platform that was designed for utility over precision. It seems like aftermarket irons are out of the question given front/rear sight height and configuration, so probably looking at red dots or inexpensive low mag optics.

 

[zaitcev]

I have TRS-25, as do many others. It's a good compromise between cheap $22 Chinese red dots and something in $400 area, like Vortex. Also, its base is low. Many red dots intended for AR make you use a "jaw weld" when applied to SU.

 

[weblance]

I have the Sig Romeo 5 on several of my ARs, and Brownells has had them on sale recently for $119. I like them much better than my Bushnell TRS-25. The Sig has a great feature. It has "Auto-Wake" Turn it on, and after 2 minutes, it goes to sleep, turns off, and saves battery. Just the slightest movement, and it turns back on. It also comes with two mounts, a high one for an AR, and a low mount for a pistol, that also would work well on the SU-16. I have one on my Sub2000, and next time they are on sale again, I'm picking one up for my SU-16c.

 

[Grotz]

My SU-16B has a Holosun HS515C. 2 MOA dot with an optional 65 MOA ring. 50,000 hour battery life, plus is augmented with solar power for extended life. Usually cost around $120.

Pretty much Primary Arms and Sig red dots are all made by Holosun and generally not bad choices as a mid-tier red dot. They may differ slightly in cost and features, but ultimately are all in the same boat. I consider them to be a step above the lower-priced Bushnells.

I've also had the Bushnell Trophy MP, but I felt it was too bulky. For awhile a Burris FastFire III sat on top too. That one was really small and light... it just got moved to my shotgun instead. It's also a 3 MOA dot instead of 2 MOA. Not sure if I liked the more open, tube-less design either.

I've heard of a new, cheaper (relatively) Vortex red dot called the Crossfire. No personal experience with it, but Vortex does decent work, and this one is probably going to sell for around $200. Pricier than a Holosun and I'm not sure if it offers a whole lot more, but it's also a mid-tier option.

 

[orichard]

My SU-16B has a Holosun HS515C. 2 MOA dot with an optional 65 MOA ring. 50,000 hour battery life, plus is augmented with solar power for extended life. Usually cost around $120.

I have the same one and can recommend it highly. $120 would be a good price if you can find it. You do have to turn it on, though. They have an older 403g model I think, that doesn't have all the bells and whistle's, but it is always on, with 40K hour battery life and solar power. That one is nice and simple, always on, for when you hear a bump in the night.

I have a Fastfire III as well, and it is the smallest red dot I have. I actually put that on my 16C to have the very lightest of rigs. The button to turn it on is pretty small and might be difficult if in a hurry with adrenalin kicking in.

If you have an astigmatism, consider a prismatic red dot (Vortex sparc I think), as you can focus the reticle. With an astigmatism, a regular red dot will have a relative smear appearance depending on how bad your astigmatism is.

 

[Grotz]

I have the same one and can recommend it highly. $120 would be a good price if you can find it. You do have to turn it on, though. They have an older 403g model I think, that doesn't have all the bells and whistle's, but it is always on, with 40K hour battery life and solar power. That one is nice and simple, always on, for when you hear a bump in the night.

Yeah, unfortunately their C (solar) and G (auto-on) models seems to be mutually exclusive. So you can't get one that's both solar-assisted and that turns on by itself when you pick up your firearm. The exception to that seems to be their T models, which do combine the two features. But those are significantly pricier (~$300).

 

[ramtuckybandit]

Make sure your front sight and your rear sight is secure. You'd be surprised how even a minute wiggle can affect accuracy. Once your sights are dialed in, use a bit of blue Loctite to keep them in place. If you like shooting irons like I do, upgrading to the Tech Sights is a great option as you can dial in more precisely between different loads.

For a red dot, I'll echo the suggestion for the TRS25. It's low enough to keep a consistent stance, and you can co-witness with iron sights like the Tech Sights, or use a low profile see-through riser.

And yup, the bravo heats up nice and fast, so depending how fast you're shooting, it's going to affect accuracy a bit when hot. Seems more so with the bipod deployed in my experience.

 

[Gun Carrying Liberal]

Appreciate the feedback, I'll take a look at the SIG, holosun, and TRS offerings and see if any jump out at me. And Ram, I do enjoy shooting irons, and having convenient functional ones available in the event an optic fails. Haven't been too impressed with the stock rear sight, you said Tech Sight makes a quality aftermarket replacement?

 

[Gun Carrying Liberal]

With the Tech Sights irons, any recommendations on the A1 vs A1-E style? Sounds like the A1 has two apertures and is adjustable for windage, while the A1-E is a single aperture with wind+elevation adjustment. How does the size of the A1-E aperture compare to either of the two on the A1?

 

[orichard]

The one without elevation may require a taller front post to zero properly. I think the one with elevation can compensate adequately. There was a recent thread on it.

 

[ramtuckybandit]

Appreciate the feedback, I'll take a look at the SIG, holosun, and TRS offerings and see if any jump out at me. And Ram, I do enjoy shooting irons, and having convenient functional ones available in the event an optic fails. Haven't been too impressed with the stock rear sight, you said Tech Sight makes a quality aftermarket replacement?

Here's an older thread of mine regarding the Tech Sights and the TRS co-witness (2nd photo):
Suggested raiser height to co-witness a simple reflex sight

I have the elevation Tech Sights, so it's easier to set up to co-witness as you can raise both the rear and front and still maintain zero. I like it, it works great, and looks good too.
Here's a photo of my rifle:Pictures of your SU 16 (NO DISCUSSION)

The stock metal rear sight isn't too bad but isn't easily adjustable with different loadings. You can use a low-profile see-through riser with the stock metal sight.

The old plastic rear sight was pretty bad though.

 

[orichard]

That's very interesting, so you can cowitness if you can get your front sight high enough to match the rear elevation sight. I was thinking you couldn't get the front sight high enough to clear the red dot window height.

The see through riser is a good thought too, though with the su16 models, the stock is already low, so getting a cheek weld is that much harder with a riser, plus you are that much higher than bore. First method seems better if possible, and the photos suggest it is.

 

[Grotz]

I've got the -EL Tech Sight model... the aperture is a bit small for my tastes. A bit difficult to pick out the front sight post in less illuminated situations. Although it is nice for zeroing in, I do wish the aperture would have been made larger. Can't compare it to the standard Tech Sight model as I only have one, just comparing it to my other rifles.

And for what it's worth, the Holosun HS515C I have is a bit too high to properly cowitness. If my red dot went down, I would have to use the quick release feature. That may be an advantage to the TRS. Maybe a FastFire might also cowitness (haven't really tried).

 

[nimbly]

I just bought these. They seem to be about the same height at Tech-Sites. Don't care for the fact that you need an Allen wrench to adjust them and they are made in PRC, but for $20 bucks, I can live with it. I haven't had a chance to go to the range and my bore laser is dead, once I get it zeroed I will give y'all my impressions. From what I understand AR-15 A2 front posts work in the SU and are a little taller. I think I might order a national match front post. I like the thinner post up front.

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