new  gun - feed problem

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by cbreez99, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. cbreez99

    cbreez99 New Member

    20
    Aug 18, 2008
    I have recenty purchased a P3AT, and immediately had feed problems with it. Went to the range, and it would not feed about 1 round of the six in a magazine, each time. I shot about 50 rounds. Is this normal for these? Will it fix itself with time? The gun was well lubed...I was disappointed because I was excited to get this gun.
     
  2. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    Are you using hollow points or hard ball?
     

  3. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    Need a bit more info...

    Was it when you chambered the first round only?

    Was it not any particular round in the magazine or always the same round?

    Did it happen with more than one kind of ammo?

    Were you possibly limp-wristing?

    Do you have a hard time hanging on to the gun during recoil?

    Did it occur with all magazines or just one?

    Bobo
     
  4. RAT76

    RAT76 Active Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Oklahoma
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    Did you clean & lube prior to shooting? With GREASE on the rails? Mine would NOT run a full mag with just oil.
     
  5. cbreez99

    cbreez99 New Member

    20
    Aug 18, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    I was using fmj. No limp wrist (I have other semi- autos), and the first round going into the chamber was a bit sticky as well. Funny, it seemed like the 2nd shot was the one that hung up. I did lube with oil, not grease. The gun worked fine, other than this problem. Made me a bit nervous. I don't remember the ammo brand I used, but it was all the same for my testing.
    Thanks for the input.
     
  6. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    No, not normal. Yes, it does happen to some and we can help you work though it if you desire.

    With no offense intended, this is the number one sign you ARE limp wristing. First of all, LW is NOT an attack on your manliness; it is a way of holding the pistol carefully. It is a matter of locking the wrist and pivoting at the elbow. It is something that you do not have to worry about in most other semi-autos so it is something that you may very well have developed bad habbits with your "other semi-autos." Even "I shoot other P3s without LW'ing" doesn't mean you are not LW this one. The better tuned/broken in each weapon is the less susceptible to LW it is. Some cannot be LW'd at all.

    If you are having hang ups with feeding polishing the crap out of every sliding surface will help break in and eliminate snags that might be slowing the slide down. Anything that slows the slide down is bad. This weapon NEEDS grease on the rails and sliding surfaces, not just oil; especially during break in.

    And FMJs tend to feed the best an are a good choice during the first few hundred rounds. But you have to try several. Just because something works in one weapon does not mean it will work in another. You should KNOW what you have shot and what works so that you can try other choices.

    Some find the finger rest on the mag also helps. Some don't like them. Many also like the grips and pads at www.ktaddons.com too!

    Just a few suggestions.

    -Scott
     
  7. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    One other thing that I don't believe has been mentioned so far...

    The feed ramp and chamber must be shiny smooth and especially when new must be kept clean. I had to clean mine after about every 25 rounds until I had about 200 rounds through it. Now that I have over 2500 rounds through it seems as though it would run forever without cleaning.

    Bobo
     
  8. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    It helps to remember that the Kel-Tec P3-AT weighs about 8 oz. Traditional small alloy framed .380s generally come in at 16+ oz. So we are dealing with a really light weight semi-auto pistol for its caliber. Most P3-ATs work right out of the box, a few don't. You might want to try another brand of fmj ammo first. A minor "Fluff & Buff" won't hurt either. Some guns leave the factory with tolerances or tool marks that lead to more friction than the average. Polishing the feed ramp and breaking any sharp edges around the mouth of the chamber is another good idea. I would also polish the steel recoil spring guide rod and the hammer slide rib that runs down the middle of the slide on the inside behind the breach.
     
  9. cbreez99

    cbreez99 New Member

    20
    Aug 18, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    Thanks for the tips...the troubling thing is that it hangs up when chambering the first round, before it's even fired. I will do some polishing and more lubing and try it again. No offense taken on the lw thing...but even firing with 2 hands gripping, I had the problem. It is a parkerized finish gun, would that tighten up the tolerances?
     
  10. indyjoe

    indyjoe New Member

    31
    Jul 19, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    Hanging up slightly when chambering the first round was the only problem I had with my new P3AT.  This could be fixed with technique on mine.  Most pistols are fine with a little sloppiness, but the P3AT is so close to what is possible, that tolerances are tighter (for machine and operator).  When I held the slide all the way back and dropped it with a firm grip on the gun, I never had a problem getting the first round in.  

    The only thing I did you break in my P3AT was manually cycle the slide about 100 times, without grease or oil on it.  I wanted to take off the high points and smooth everything before lubrication makes this take longer.
     
  11. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    This is one of the more common malfs with new P-3ATs. Good lubing, a smooth and shiny feed ramp and chamber, sling-shotting the slide, and break-in will almost always eventually eliminate it. Fortunately, this is not a life-threatening malf. In a real life situation your gun will aready be loaded.

    No offense also, but but even two hands will not necessarily eliminate LW. See here for a very good explanation: http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a8/a8.html It shows a two-handed LW.
    Some guns are just more prone to the effects of LW, small pistols especially. Even big pistols can have the problem - search for "limpwrist" on YouTube. There are a number of good videos there.

    Not usually.

    Bobo
     
  12. cbreez99

    cbreez99 New Member

    20
    Aug 18, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    I also called Kel-Tec today. They told me after a couple of hundred rounds it would be perfect! I guess I am surprized that I paid $349 for a new gun, and the factory tells me that I should spend another $60-$70 on ammo to run through it, to make it right. That just doesn't sound right to me! ::)
     
  13. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    The only thing that doesn't sound right to me is paying $349 for a gun that is often found for about $100 less than that. But other than that these do have some break in time, that is right. You can hasten that break in time by doing it manually with a fluff and buff, but ANY new weapon has a break in period; just like a new owner.

    -Scott
     
  14. cbreez99

    cbreez99 New Member

    20
    Aug 18, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    I am a new Kel-Tec owner, but I have bought new 4 guns in the last couple of years, (2 semis) and they all worked fine out of the box. I do understand a break in period...this seemed a bit much to me. Sorry for the bitching. BTW in the Tampa area, that's the going price if you can find one. They go fast and seem to be on continual b/o from high demand. I checked 4 shops on pricing.
     
  15. enigma4you

    enigma4you New Member

    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    Im not jumping to the defence of kel tec here. I owe them nothing. a 200 round break in is normal for almost every gun. I am going to give you and example. My first AR 15 would have a FTF about every 3 rd round when I first got it. I called the company that made it and they told me to get 200 rounds thru it. I did and was pizzed off the whole time. Well at round 165 I stopped having the problem. I have not had a FTF or a failure to go into battery since.

    I would recomend doing a fluff and buff before you go to the range again, pay special attention to the feed ramp also use grease on the rails and trigger bar. I can promise you that KT will syand behind thier product.
     
  16. Zectron2348

    Zectron2348 New Member

    35
    Aug 9, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    A friend of mine was told by Kimber he needed to put 400 rds through his new $600 gun before he could expect it to fire properly 100% of the time. That just seems wrong to me.

    He sold the gun after putting about 450 through it and still did not have a reliable gun.
     
  17. cbreez99

    cbreez99 New Member

    20
    Aug 18, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    My friends, I will do that and report! :)
     
  18. Re: new  gun - feed problem

    I have a $1200 Kimber. From the online Kimber manual:

    I have no problems what so ever with this.

    It is very normal for all new guns, especially auto loaders, to go through a break in period.  Some more than others.

    For me personally, I would NEVER want to have to bet my life on an auto loader that I had not personally shot several hundred rounds down range with out failure of ANY kind.
     
  19. Zectron2348

    Zectron2348 New Member

    35
    Aug 9, 2008
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    I respectfully disagree that a break in period should be required to "fix problems".

    While I agree that some firearms often need a break in  period, I don't see it as  a period where malfunctions should be correcting themselves. It is a period where surfaces polish themselves and the whole machine becomes much smoother in operation.

    I have three Glock handguns and two H&K, ...... none of them required their "break in" period to correct malfunctions. They all shot perfect right out of the box, and became smoother after a few hunderd rounds fired. My Ruger P89, Colt 1911s ........... same thing. 450 rounds and a Kimber can't reliably fire two mags without a FTE or FTC, .......... give me a break. That gun was a bad one, plain and simple. I think some manufacturers today are using that "break in period" as a crutch.

    I also don't buy all this "well tolerances are much tighter" nonsense.  That is a machining issue, not a reliability issue. The gun should function even better out of the box if they are properly maintaining tighter tolerances.

    I worked 27 years in manufacturing quality control engineering.  There is no good reason why they can't ship out a gun which works perfectly right out of the box. I examine all my new guns very closely to see how they are manufactured and assembled. Over the years I have seen a steady decline in overall machining quality. It is not uncommon to see machining marks left on parts, and just what I would call shoddy workmanship. Seems many are just pushing them out the door like other industries, ... and you didn't used to see that in the firearms industry.
     
  20. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Re: new  gun - feed problem

    Every gun you quoted is 2-4 times the weight/mass of the P3AT.  Notice how glock doesn't make a P3AT sized weapon, nor does H&K, or Colt...  And Ruger stole the P3AT design and has the same issues.  The polished surfaces that you acknowledge happen during break in are absolutely critical to this weapon functioning 100%.  For the few than need more work, it is much cheaper (for KT which also means for us) to do some of the smoothing ourselves by F&B or just shooting it than to expect them to come that way.  

    KT does decent enough machine work that the vast majority of the weapons function just fine with the few rough edges that are still there, some don't and require more breaking in.  And even then, some still don't get there and need returned but that is very few.  Its hard to get good stats but from what was alleged last time this was discussed KTs return rate was not really any different than the other major mfgs.  Not bad for making a weapon 1/2 the size, weight and price of your competitors.  

    -Scott