Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner
21 - 31 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,984 Posts
Anyone who wants a tiny single stack 9mm should consider the Diamondback DB9. It's very thin, looks a lot like a glock, disassembles like one, and, from my experience, is a cracker jack to shoot. If you can do it, it will put them where you want. I will admit that some people have experienced trouble with feeding, but I haven't, and I've read others saying you must grip the gun tightly, no limp-wristing, which is true of most semis. No manual safety, either.

Oh, they're pretty inexpensive, too.

As for pocket-carrying without a safety, I've carried a pocket model Kahr .45 with one in the spout fot the better part of 20 years, since right after they were available. No leg holes from it, yet.
I had one. I would, without hesitation, rank it as one of the all-time worst pistols I've ever owned ... and I've had a few over the years. Recoil was downright painful, and even with stiffer magazine springs, the thing would only reliably feed, fire, and eject if you had an absolute, total death-grip on it. I absolutely COULD NOT get the thing to cycle reliably when firing it one-handed, and even two-handed, you had to squeeze it like you were throttling the life out of a rabit bobcat just to keep it from short-stroking and jamming. Size-wise, yeah, it was tiny, and it was definitely light, but given the fact you had to can have any one of several .380 ACP pistols that are slightly smaller but hold more rounds, recoil (slightly) less sharply, can be fired one-handed (reliably), and with the availability of effective .380 ACP defensive ammunition now ... the DB9 just doesn't make much sense. Heck, the Sig P938 is barely bigger, but it is WAY more comfortable to shoot, and certainly a lot more reliable.

Anyway. Sorry. Random tangent. It's been years since I had that thing, but my distaste for that pistol is still pretty strong...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,150 Posts
I'm still on the 938, pretty much stopped there. Its been perfect for me, though some hate a safety etc.
The savage looks like it might actually contend in that playing field, if the trigger pull and safety are as clean as the sig.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Several things. First, the old Savage pocket pistols were beautifully made. The machine work is amazing. And there are no screw heads visible. Disassembly is a little tricky - it took me a few minutes to figure it out in pre-internet days. They also shot beautifully.
Second, I must agree that it is over a decade too late.
About 7 years ago I replaced my PF-9 with a Ruger LC9s for EDC. (Yes I kept the PF-9 and still love it.) It carries just as well and shoots better. Plus it has a migazine disconnect ("magazine safety" for the uninformed.) Before all the 'net commandos get their knickers in a knot, hear me out. Having grandchildren and other frequent overnight family visitors, I can remove the magazine and be sure that if someone (grandkids are incredibly curious critters) finds it, they cannot discharge it. This is a safety feature I use almost daily. Plus it allows me to leave the pistol locked in the car safely while I keep the magazines (7-rounder for carry, 9-rounder for a spare) in my pocket. Then, upon returning to the car, it takes only 2 seconds to return the pistol to readiness. This was great before retirement. My daughter, a school teacher, used to do exactly this when she taught in an urban setting.
Now if someone would just offer a quality .22 conversion unit...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,954 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
There is a rumor going around that it looks suspiciously similar to the Honor Hefense Honor Guard 9 mm single stack.



Peace favor your sword (mobile)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,984 Posts
Ehhhh ... sorta-kinda. The Savage pistol looks more squared, at least in its slide profile. The Honor Guard was basically an M&P Shield knockoff (but with the extra "bonus" of apparently not being drop-safe); this new thing from Savage looks sorta like a cross between a Shield and, I dunno, something like a "Gucci Glock" with all the cuts in the slide where you can see the barrel through it. Like so:

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,954 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Ehhhh ... sorta-kinda. The Savage pistol looks more squared, at least in its slide profile.
The frame and magazine look nearly identical to me, right down to the over-travel stop. The slide seems very similar with a few differences.

The Honor Guard was basically an M&P Shield knockoff (but with the extra "bonus" of apparently not being drop-safe);
FWIW, it passed the all state and federal standardized drop tests.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,984 Posts
The frame and magazine look nearly identical to me, right down to the over-travel stop. The slide seems very similar with a few differences.

FWIW, it passed the all state and federal standardized drop tests.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Perhaps the criteria for state and federal standardized drop tests need to be revised. I would be afraid to carry one of those things in a holster and have it get bumped (as I am prone to doing, for I am a clumsy oaf), much less actually drop the thing:


Hopefully the Savage Stance is not based on the Honor Guard mechanically and its only similarities are in its appearance and caliber. Either way, the Stance is kinda like the little single-stack pistol that Mossberg came out with awhile back: not bad, and it'll sell a few, but it's not likely to be a huge hit and will easily be forgotten as one of many without bringing anything new to the market or offering anything (even a lower price tag would be nice) over the competition to make it really noteworthy.

Heck, with all that said, I kinda wonder why Kel-Tec hasn't already killed off the PF9. I can't imagine sales are doing all that great nowadays with all the other single- and double-stack offerings on the market. Actually, now that I think of it, I haven't seen a PF9 on a shelf anywhere for quite awhile. Not sure if that's because they've actually been selling a lot or if it's because Kel-Tec hasn't been producing many as they focus production on other things...? :unsure:

Anyway. I wonder if the Stance is close enough in size/shape that it would fit in M&P Shield holsters? Having a lot of holster options right from the get-go would at least be a nice perk for it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,954 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Perhaps the criteria for state and federal standardized drop tests need to be revised. I would be afraid to carry one of those things in a holster and have it get bumped (as I am prone to doing, for I am a clumsy oaf), much less actually drop the thing:
Maybe. I'll let someone else spearhead that effort.

I've followed TTAG's development for years. During this time period, the have about the same credibility as The Midnight Star. TTAG has greatly improved since it was sold a few years back and I mostly trust it as a source now.

That aside, I know that several people got the Honor Guard to drop-fire. But, again, IMS, they did it outside of the standardized test protocol which, theoretically, was designed by experts to replicate the most common and likely drops. Maybe that means that the standard test needs changed. Maybe it means that it's not actually that big of a threat.

Hopefully the Savage Stance is not based on the Honor Guard mechanically and its only similarities are in its appearance and caliber.
Regardless, that's the rumor that I heard floated.

Either way, the Stance is kinda like the little single-stack pistol that Mossberg came out with awhile back: not bad, and it'll sell a few, but it's not likely to be a huge hit and will easily be forgotten as one of many without bringing anything new to the market or offering anything (even a lower price tag would be nice) over the competition to make it really noteworthy.

Heck, with all that said, I kinda wonder why Kel-Tec hasn't already killed off the PF9. I can't imagine sales are doing all that great nowadays with all the other single- and double-stack offerings on the market. Actually, now that I think of it, I haven't seen a PF9 on a shelf anywhere for quite awhile. Not sure if that's because they've actually been selling a lot or if it's because Kel-Tec hasn't been producing many as they focus production on other things...? :unsure:
Well, Kelgren did tease a "better" replacement for the P11. And SHOT is coming soon...

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkwriter77

·
Registered
Joined
·
380 Posts
\There is a rumor going around that it looks suspiciously similar to the Honor Hefense Honor Guard 9 mm single stack.\
I don't think you can call it a "rumor". It literally is a fact that the gun is basically identical. They are more similar than BB-6 and Kimber Mako. In fact, more similar than Rorhbaugh and Remington RM380. They are as similar as Boberg XR-9S and Bond Bullpup, although the slide is slightly re-countered. No rumor, the facts.

But, based on these facts, there's no question in my mind that Savage not just cloned Honor Guard in the same way SCCY copied P11 or Ruger copied P-3AT, but they literally used the data package, if not the whole production line.
 
21 - 31 of 31 Posts
Top