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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Wow! This turned into a book! I sure can get diarrhea of the keyboard!

I thought there was a fairly recent thread about black guns, meaning ARs, but I can't find anything recent. Mods feel free to move this.

I recently retired my ultralight AR with Brigand Arms handguards and can from HD use after 20 years waiting for the right parts to finish it. Why? OK long story.

3 years ago we had a cop killer running around in the back acreage, thousands of acres. I tried to do chores with the long gun strapped to me but that was useless. So I started on a shorter gun search. I'm cutting out lots of back story.

I bought a KS7 and had intended to use short slugs in it. But I had a malfunction where the shell flipped ends. So I decided to make my own 1/4" longer. That was going to take longer than I wanted it to take so I decided to build another HD firearm. I decided on 300BLK and a handgun length barrel, 10.3". I already had a blast can on hand and while the can is 10" long it goes over the barrel and only makes the barrel 4" longer. Blast will kill your ears indoors so a can is mandatory with a cartridge that has a shoulder. I decided early on that the build was going to require something on the end of the barrel so that I could use a longer handguard. It will self destruct if the barrel is bare. I have a linear comp' that goes on when I don't use the can.

So far I'm happy with it and I don't tolerate garbage easily. It wears a Holosun red dot now and not the MRO sight pictured below. The laser/light at the end of the handguard is a TruGlo Trupoint green laser. Why? the Holosun has a red dot If I had a red laser which dot is which when I adjust the laser to the dot in the sight? Why the laser at all? A long gun can easily be levered out of ones grasp that why I went to much shorter guns in the first place. The laser/light allows me to tuck it under my arm, basically retracted, and still use it effectively. No need to extend it to use the red dot sight. But it's still there should I wish to. I've tested the laser out much further than HD could be justified. It works great.

My HD defense ammo pushes a 85 gr Maker copper bullet to 2300 fps for 1k ft/lbs. Based on tests in gel it should penetrate approx' 6" and not over penetrate. But I haven't tested it in flesh yet.

I have more loads to develop. I have a solid lead bullet that's a subsonic load and quiet with the right can in place.

If the ATF rules that arm braces are no longer acceptable the laser is in place for that, tucked at the hip, and of course I can cheek the gun.

I like the gun and I really like the cartridge. It's not impressive on paper but it's intended for exactly what I'm using it for. (IMO)



Same gun different sight, different arm brace, and the quiet can intended for subsonic.

The build:
I built when the left was burning left coast cities and parts availability was tight, but I decided from day one to go high end and that helped matters.

The .30 blast can is an Amtac CQB, the quiet can is a Dead Air Ghost-M in full length configuration and is only for subsonic. The Amtac can handle any .30, it's a beast.

The barrel is a Ballistic Advantage 10.3".

The lower is made for a local gun manufacturer.

The sight (not pictured) is a Holosun with photovoltaic power when there's enough light to save the battery.

Already mentioned is the TruGlo TryPoint Light/green laser for final identification and targeting. I liked it so much that I bought another for the KS7.

The handguard is a Lancer carbon fiber as are the 300BLK mags that I use (Lancer, not CF). Yes, 5.56 mags can be used. But I got the Lancer mags with steel lips for the same price as 5.56 mags so why not? Re: Lancer CS... just top notch. They didn't have what I wanted in stock but contacted me to tell me when they'd make it for me. Excellent to deal with.

The current BCG inside it is a JP Enterprises DLC coated. But it doesn't have forward assist serrations so I have a Sharps Rifle Co Xtreme performance BCG coming in and it'll be in my hot little hands on Monday. Have I ever used the forward assist for what it was designed for? No, never. I have only used it for closing the bolt after silently easing the BCG forward. The JP Enterprises is a really nice BCG so I'll keep it as a spare. Both companies are excellent to deal with.

The trigger is a Hyperfire Genesis with the heavy spring installed for the lightest trigger while giving the heaviest primer strike. I love light triggers and I have them in all my comp' guns. While I wouldn't suggest this for other folks w/o training it has a 1# 5oz trigger. One must remove the trigger finger from the trigger to prevent NDs. I've been doing that for many years. Want it to fire? Put the trigger finger in place and think about it going off. All of my guns have very light triggers. I confess, I'm a trigger snob. It's the first thing I test on any firearm. If it's no good I know I need to spend more $. Few make the grade (none?).

Everything about the gun was designed to give 100% reliability while trying to keep weight down and while not a lightweight gun for it's size so far it has been everything I wanted. Removing the can and putting the linear comp in place makes it a pound lighter but with blast. Shoot without either in place and the CF handguard is destroyed.

If we ever get another cop killer running around in the back 40 we're more than ready. How likely is that? I think we're good. (y)
 

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It's definitely fun, building a firearm & ammunition to your own specs - and then getting everything to function well together! (Can even get addicting... :>)
 

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Wow! This turned into a book! I sure can get diarrhea of the keyboard!

I thought there was a fairly recent thread about black guns, meaning ARs, but I can't find anything recent. Mods feel free to move this.

I recently retired my ultralight AR with Brigand Arms handguards and can from HD use after 20 years waiting for the right parts to finish it. Why? OK long story.

3 years ago we had a cop killer running around in the back acreage, thousands of acres. I tried to do chores with the long gun strapped to me but that was useless. So I started on a shorter gun search. I'm cutting out lots of back story.

I bought a KS7 and had intended to use short slugs in it. But I had a malfunction where the shell flipped ends. So I decided to make my own 1/4" longer. That was going to take longer than I wanted it to take so I decided to build another HD firearm. I decided on 300BLK and a handgun length barrel, 10.3". I already had a blast can on hand and while the can is 10" long it goes over the barrel and only makes the barrel 4" longer. Blast will kill your ears indoors so a can is mandatory with a cartridge that has a shoulder. I decided early on that the build was going to require something on the end of the barrel so that I could use a longer handguard. It will self destruct if the barrel is bare. I have a linear comp' that goes on when I don't use the can.

So far I'm happy with it and I don't tolerate garbage easily. It wears a Holosun red dot now and not the MRO sight pictured below. The laser/light at the end of the handguard is a TruGlo Trupoint green laser. Why? the Holosun has a red dot If I had a red laser which dot is which when I adjust the laser to the dot in the sight? Why the laser at all? A long gun can easily be levered out of ones grasp that why I went to much shorter guns in the first place. The laser/light allows me to tuck it under my arm, basically retracted, and still use it effectively. No need to extend it to use the red dot sight. But it's still there should I wish to. I've tested the laser out much further than HD could be justified. It works great.

My HD defense ammo pushes a 85 gr Maker copper bullet to 2300 fps for 1k ft/lbs. Based on tests in gel it should penetrate approx' 6" and not over penetrate. But I haven't tested it in flesh yet.

I have more loads to develop. I have a solid lead bullet that's a subsonic load and quiet with the right can in place.

If the ATF rules that arm braces are no longer acceptable the laser is in place for that, tucked at the hip, and of course I can cheek the gun.

I like the gun and I really like the cartridge. It's not impressive on paper but it's intended for exactly what I'm using it for. (IMO)



Same gun different sight, different arm brace, and the quiet can intended for subsonic.

The build:
I built when the left was burning left coast cities and parts availability was tight, but I decided from day one to go high end and that helped matters.

The .30 blast can is an Amtac CQB, the quiet can is a Dead Air Ghost-M in full length configuration and is only for subsonic. The Amtac can handle any .30, it's a beast.

The barrel is a Ballistic Advantage 10.3".

The lower is made for a local gun manufacturer.

The sight (not pictured) is a Holosun with photovoltaic power when there's enough light to save the battery.

Already mentioned is the TruGlo TryPoint Light/green laser for final identification and targeting. I liked it so much that I bought another for the KS7.

The handguard is a Lancer carbon fiber as are the 300BLK mags that I use (Lancer, not CF). Yes, 5.56 mags can be used. But I got the Lancer mags with steel lips for the same price as 5.56 mags so why not? Re: Lancer CS... just top notch. They didn't have what I wanted in stock but contacted me to tell me when they'd make it for me. Excellent to deal with.

The current BCG inside it is a JP Enterprises DLC coated. But it doesn't have forward assist serrations so I have a Sharps Rifle Co Xtreme performance BCG coming in and it'll be in my hot little hands on Monday. Have I ever used the forward assist for what it was designed for? No, never. I have only used it for closing the bolt after silently easing the BCG forward. The JP Enterprises is a really nice BCG so I'll keep it as a spare. Both companies are excellent to deal with.

The trigger is a Hyperfire Genesis with the heavy spring installed for the lightest trigger while giving the heaviest primer strike. I love light triggers and I have them in all my comp' guns. While I wouldn't suggest this for other folks w/o training it has a 1# 5oz trigger. One must remove the trigger finger from the trigger to prevent NDs. I've been doing that for many years. Want it to fire? Put the trigger finger in place and think about it going off. All of my guns have very light triggers. I confess, I'm a trigger snob. It's the first thing I test on any firearm. If it's no good I know I need to spend more $. Few make the grade (none?).

Everything about the gun was designed to give 100% reliability while trying to keep weight down and while not a lightweight gun for it's size so far it has been everything I wanted. Removing the can and putting the linear comp in place makes it a pound lighter but with blast. Shoot without either in place and the CF handguard is destroyed.

If we ever get another cop killer running around in the back 40 we're more than ready. How likely is that? I think we're good. (y)
Great looking gun and no doubt it runs great but for personal protection why not go with a pistol? A 5.7 or even a 7.5?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Great looking gun and no doubt it runs great but for personal protection why not go with a pistol? A 5.7 or even a 7.5?
Because despite my expertise with pistols they lack a great deal in performance. Why handicap myself? I'll explain.

:)

I have plenty of handguns and one is the same distance from me as the AR handgun pictured and technically the AR15 pictured fits the legal definition of a handgun. I also have a CC permit since '82 and do carry. My handgun experience goes back to '70 and I'm pretty good with them. The 300BLK handgun pictured is for home defense and not personal protection. I'd draw far too much attention having this slung when food shopping in the grocery store but legally I can do it. The store might object though and tell me not to come back. I'm averse to the attention it would cause and I like to shop where I shop. If I had a home invasion what would I go for? The AR15 300BLK pictured. Far more energy dumped into the perp than any antipersonnel handgun in common use or what I normally carry. And the bullet should stay in the perp and not damage my home. I have plenty of calibers that will do in a perp, but they all will damage my home or give us a clean up. I don't want to be be victimized twice or more.

My adventure into short firearms began 3(4 ?) years ago when a cop was shot a few miles away and the killer was in my back yard that night/early morning. We lived with the threat of an armed killer somewhere, at one point 30 yards from our heads as we slept for 4 days. We lived those days with me trying to do chores with a long rifle slung and it was impossible. Thus began my plunge into the short firearm pool. It has since ended, but it ended with bullpups, SBRs, and AR handguns as the result and many long guns sold. Many longer guns have been retired and handguns while still in use don't have the accurate range of even the AR handgun pictured above, and I'm a really good shot since I compete. I just prefer better fast accuracy than the typical handgun can deliver. If I need to use it for defense it's not a sporting event but life and death. The second place finisher isn't something I want to be.

Trust me on this, in the 50+ years I've been training with CC handguns both professionally and privately I've honed my skills with them a bit, since that's what I do and take pride in. What is pictured is a way advanced "handgun" but based on modern tech', parts, and design. They didn't exist 50 years ago or I'd have had one back then.
 

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Because despite my expertise with pistols they lack a great deal in performance. Why handicap myself? I'll explain.

:)

I have plenty of handguns and one is the same distance from me as the AR handgun pictured and technically the AR15 pictured fits the legal definition of a handgun. I also have a CC permit since '82 and do carry. My handgun experience goes back to '70 and I'm pretty good with them. The 300BLK handgun pictured is for home defense and not personal protection. I'd draw far too much attention having this slung when food shopping in the grocery store but legally I can do it. The store might object though and tell me not to come back. I'm averse to the attention it would cause and I like to shop where I shop. If I had a home invasion what would I go for? The AR15 300BLK pictured. Far more energy dumped into the perp than any antipersonnel handgun in common use or what I normally carry. And the bullet should stay in the perp and not damage my home. I have plenty of calibers that will do in a perp, but they all will damage my home or give us a clean up. I don't want to be be victimized twice or more.

My adventure into short firearms began 3(4 ?) years ago when a cop was shot a few miles away and the killer was in my back yard that night/early morning. We lived with the threat of an armed killer somewhere, at one point 30 yards from our heads as we slept for 4 days. We lived those days with me trying to do chores with a long rifle slung and it was impossible. Thus began my plunge into the short firearm pool. It has since ended, but it ended with bullpups, SBRs, and AR handguns as the result and many long guns sold. Many longer guns have been retired and handguns while still in use don't have the accurate range of even the AR handgun pictured above, and I'm a really good shot since I compete. I just prefer better fast accuracy than the typical handgun can deliver. If I need to use it for defense it's not a sporting event but life and death. The second place finisher isn't something I want to be.

Trust me on this, in the 50+ years I've been training with CC handguns both professionally and privately I've honed my skills with them a bit, since that's what I do and take pride in. What is pictured is a way advanced "handgun" but based on modern tech', parts, and design. They didn't exist 50 years ago or I'd have had one back then.
Just asked about a handgun because you mentioned working with a long gun strapped to you. I was thinking you were trying to work outside and having something on your back getting in the way plus being uncomfortable. I was thinking the 7.5 with the right ammo can hit steel at 400 yards. It was just a thought
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just asked about a handgun because you mentioned working with a long gun strapped to you. I was thinking you were trying to work outside and having something on your back getting in the way plus being uncomfortable. I was thinking the 7.5 with the right ammo can hit steel at 400 yards. It was just a thought
Understood. The cop killer had potential for a 100 yard shot. I thought a long gun was a better fit for those 4 days because of that. More ft/lbs with a rifle too. Yes, I was doing chores in the outbuildings. I traded the 16" AR15 for a bullpup after a few minutes of the barrel getting in the way and that was better but still not optimal. Today would be a different story. What are the odds that it'll ever happen again? But if it does, I'm ready.

I really have no use for a 5.7x28 and don't need another cartridge to reload for. I've been resisting new cartridges for decades. What I have in the safe does more than I'll ever need them to do. 7.5? I have no use for one if it's in a long gun. The ones I know about are all largish bottleneck cartridges and can't possibly burn their powder in a 8-10" barrel.

I'm just curious... Where are you that you would think "7.5"? That's not a standard US cartridge. Sure people have them, but I'd wager that it's not common in the USA.
 

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Understood. The cop killer had potential for a 100 yard shot. I thought a long gun was a better fit for those 4 days because of that. More ft/lbs with a rifle too. Yes, I was doing chores in the outbuildings. I traded the 16" AR15 for a bullpup after a few minutes of the barrel getting in the way and that was better but still not optimal. Today would be a different story. What are the odds that it'll ever happen again? But if it does, I'm ready.

I really have no use for a 5.7x28 and don't need another cartridge to reload for. I've been resisting new cartridges for decades. What I have in the safe does more than I'll ever need them to do. 7.5? I have no use for one if it's in a long gun. The ones I know about are all largish bottleneck cartridges and can't possibly burn their powder in a 8-10" barrel.

I'm just curious... Where are you that you would think "7.5"? That's not a standard US cartridge. Sure people have them, but I'd wager that it's not common in the USA.
Not common at all ( yet ) but with the newest lower cost model it’ll become more common. I remember when I bought my Fn 5.7 almost everyone I knew commented on that same fact. I was buying 5.7 ammo at 14 a box of 50. Now just about every place that sells ammo carries it. I see that for the 7.5. I still remember that same argument for the AK47. The 7.5 with its low recoil and effective range well out beyond 100 yards ( it’s really well beyond 200 yards ) and the gun costing around 1800 ( the cost of a good AR ) with less maintenance and very high reliability would be my first choice. All said and done guns are a personal choice and don’t get me wrong I also have AR’s in 3 different calibers. It was the, while working thing that put a pistol in mind. You may have the upper hand in experience so I’ll defer to you.
 

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Some of us country dwellers prefer the M1 carbine. In a repro M1A1 stock with a red dot on an Ultimak scout mount and firing Hornady Critical Defense ammo, it's hard to beat for utility. It delivers more energy than any conventional handgun and holds minute-of-perp out to 125 yards.
True, GI carbines are getting quite expensive, but comparable to black rifles.
One more thing - should you become involved in a serious "social situation" using the M1 carbine will look far less "Rambo-esque" than any black rifle to prosecutors and juries in civil cases. While you should choose the weapon with which you are effective and delivers adequate performance for the task, a more benign looking gun is recommended given the gun and self-defense ignorance that permeates our society.
 
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