Need your advice. 90% of rounds misfeeding....

Discussion in 'SU-22' started by matyoka, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. matyoka

    matyoka New Member

    8
    Apr 18, 2009
    Good afternoon all,

    Today I've picked up a Kel-Tec SU-22 rifle. The rifle was brand new in box and right of the bet I had a problem putting the pin through the holes to secure the foldable butt stock. The holes did not line up... Arrived home, placed 26 Remington Golden rounds into the plastic magazine, inserted it into the rifle, cocked it and instead a flawless chamber feed, the round went in half way... The first round got totally bent. I figured the magazine spring was too hard and the pressure of the spring caused a misfeed. Tried to cock it again, same thing. The round entered the chamber half way totally destroying the bullet. This happened a couple more times.. wasted about 20 .22 LR rounds so I decided to feed one round manually without the magazine and woila, the rifle shot just as supposed to, even with a perfect extraction. Removed about 20 rounds from the magazine, I figured it has to be the overloaded spring... Nope, the same misfeed with only half the round in the chamber.

    I spent close to $400 on this rifle and frankly I have no idea what to do with it... If this is a problem that can be easily fixed please let me know. If you feel that the magazine is the problem I will see if I can get it exchanged.

    I will write Kel-Tec as well and see what they say. I am looking forward to your answer and guidance.
     
  2. Sangueffusor

    Sangueffusor New Member

    May 13, 2007
    Indiana
    If you are using .22 rounds with a bullet crimp loose enough that you can twirl the bullet around inside the case, this will always happen. A common offender is Remington Golden Bullets. Try something else, like Federal Champion bulk pack from Wal-Mart.
     

  3. matyoka

    matyoka New Member

    8
    Apr 18, 2009
    Thanks a million Sir,

    I knew this was THE place to come for answers.
     
  4. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    Most .22s are ammo specific to some degree or another. The SU-22 HATES Remington Golden Bullets. Don't even try them. Mine likes three different Federal bulk pack ammo and Blazer bulk pack ammo, so this isn't an issue of a finicky .22 that will only function reliably with expensive ammo. If you grab a Golden Bullet, the roll crimp is so loose that the bullet not only spins freely in the case, it can also be flexed laterally to misalign maybe ten degrees. Frankly, I'm amazed that any .22 will reliably feed that ammo but my NEOS pistol loves them. It's not as fond of the Federal. Apparently, it likes the loosely crimped bullets.

    The Golden Bullets will probably feed a lot better after the SU-22 is finished with a 500 round break-in process, but instead of 90% failures you may find 10% failures, and that's still way too high. I'd just avoid any loose crimped ammo like the Remington Golden Bullet ammo. Some other Remington ammo is loose crimped, while some other Remington ammo isn't.

    With several different varieties of inexpensive ammo, my SU-22 is very reliable AND very accurate.

    I wish you'd read some of the SU-22 forum on KTOG first. The warning about the Golden Bullet ammo is scattered prominently throughout the forum. It could have saved you a lot of grief and anguish on your first trip to the range.

    In the SU-22 manual, I think Kel-Tec should recommend ammo that's known to work well and warn against specific ammo that's known not to work well in the SU-22. Why have frustrated and discontented customers when a little info could prevent it? Heck, I'd put a bright yellow and red sticker on the outside of the box!
     
  5. matyoka

    matyoka New Member

    8
    Apr 18, 2009
    Gentlemen,

    Once again thanks for the pretious input and advice. I tried two different types of Federal ammo and it works fine without any jamms and misfeeding.

    Can't thank you enough !!!!
     
  6. kristkustoms

    kristkustoms New Member

    3
    Mar 16, 2009
    I had to send my SU-22 back. They remachined the feedramp, and polished it up nicely. My SU-22 will now shoot anything I put in it, I love this rifle! Have a little fun with it, and don't be afraid to send it in for a little finessing. Kel-tec was great to deal with on the work!
     
  7. Navy87Guy

    Navy87Guy New Member

    76
    Nov 12, 2007
    Just out of curiosity -- is it all Remington ammo or just the Goldens? I just picked up my SU-22 today and I was going to load it up with the Remington Thunderbolts that I have on hand. Now I'm thinking maybe I should save myself the frustration and go straight to Federal?

    Thanks!

    Jim
     
  8. matyoka

    matyoka New Member

    8
    Apr 18, 2009
    Jim,

    It seems as the problem is only when shooting the Goldens. Works fine with Federal, American Eagle, Winchester Dynapoint and some others as well but I don't recall their names. I have not tried the Remington Thunderbolts...
     
  9. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    Some Remington .22 ammo, like the Golden Bullet, is loosely roll crimped. Some of it is worse than others. Some Remington .22 ammo is tightly crimped. The Golden Bullets are the cheap bulk packs, so they have been the most problematic as that's some of the ammo that people are most likely to try until they know better.

    I have a nice collection of .22 ammo that I haven't evaluated in any gun yet, so I can't say based on actual trials in the SU-22, but based on looking at it and trying to flex or twist the bullets, here's the poop on the Remington .22 LR ammo.

    22 Thunderbolt: Tight roll crimp. Barely turns. No significant flex.

    22 Cyclone: Loose roll crimp with a lot of flex, like a hollow point Golden Bullet.

    22 Golden Bullet HP: Tight crimp. No rotation or flex.

    22 Target: Tight roll crimp. Barely turns. No significant flex.

    22 Yellow Jacket HP: Fairly tight crimp. Barely turns. Slight flex. Long taper on bullet.

    22 Viper: Moderately loose crimp. Some rotation and flex. Long taper on bullet.

    22 Subsonic: Tight roll crimp. Barely turns. No significant flex.

    Based on the observations, I think none of them would be as problematic as the cheap Golden Bullets, but the Yellow Jacket and Viper might cause problems, although those with a long tapered bullet might feed well anyway. I think the Remington Subsonic ammo would not cycle in the SU-22, not because of the bullet crimp or profile, but because it's a light 38 gr bullet with only 1050 fps of muzzle velocity so it probably doesn't have enough power to cycle the semi-auto.

    Again, these are guesses based on appearance only. I haven't tried to shoot any of these yet. I have a lot of other .22 ammo that I haven't tried yet, probably including more Remington? That was just a sample of the Remington .22 ammo that was on my desk!
     
  10. eastenn

    eastenn New Member

    5
    Oct 27, 2009
    i tried the remington thunderbolts, cci standard velocity, and cci hp and none would feed very well through mine..just can't find any federal around here, wal mart has nothing
     
  11. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    One of my local Mal*Wart stores stopped carrying the bulk pack Federal altogether. The only bulk .22 LR they have is Remington Golden Bullets. My SU-22 is very well broken in by now and apparently likes the Golden Bullets that is hated when new, but I still don't like the loose roll crimp. My other Mal*Wart has the maroon box Federal bulk packs for (I think) $14. A friend called and asked if I wanted any, and I had him pick up two boxes (1100 rounds) to rebuild my stash from all of the SU-22 shooting I did during the politically motivated big ammo shortage of 2009 when I wasn't buying any ammo.

    My ultimate goal is to test a bunch of ammo in my SU-22 and see what's best in the accuracy/cost/reliability space and then stock up on that type of ammo in bulk, even if I need to mail order it. I'd like to get all I'll need for the rest of my life. It's only going to get more expensive and more difficult to find. It'll be a good investment, and maybe a great investment. I'm also motivated by wanting bragging rights when they raid my house and report that I had an "arsenal" with over 100,000 rounds of ammunition. :)

    If you have a similar plan to stock up and you live in California, you'd better do it before the recently passed ammo legislation takes effect next summer. As I understand it, that would result in no ammo shipments into California and you'd be limited to only 50 rounds of "handgun ammo" per month with an ID and thumb print! I'm not sure if .22 LR is included, but can you imagine the suck factor of only being able to buy 50 rounds of .22 LR ammo a month? I shoot more than that on the way to the range.  :D

    On second thought, if you live in California, just move. I hear Arizona is nice. Right, Lurker?
     
  12. carmike442

    carmike442 New Member

    Sep 14, 2004
    I don't believe the 50 round limit made it into the actual bill that Arnold signed, just the ID and thumbprint.
     
  13. carmike442

    carmike442 New Member

    Sep 14, 2004
    I've got around 700 trouble free rounds of the Federal bulk through mine so far. I think I'll try some of the Remingtons this week to see what they'll do.
     
  14. henktermaat

    henktermaat New Member

    228
    Dec 13, 2008
    hmm- that makes me wonder if I should do a fluff and buff like I did on my PF-9. My feedramp has a little gouge in it after my first trip to the range, possibly a result of a jammed round stuck in there.

    Can anyone tell me how to dissasemble the rifle down to the point of getting the barrel off?
     
  15. new_cal_shooter

    new_cal_shooter New Member

    36
    Nov 6, 2009
    I had problems feeding my new su22 when i used CCI mini mags, everyone tells me they are the best, but I still feel Federal bulk pack was the best and is currently, and when i cleaned it, put almost no oil in the bolt, just a super light swipe on the sides of the bolt, then wiped it off, no more jams.
     
  16. stevep

    stevep New Member

    3
    Sep 22, 2007
    Just picked up my second Kel-Tec firearm an SU-22 on Tuesday to go with my P3AT I got a couple years ago.  Is the Federal ammo that is recommended the ones without the copper clad coating on it.  I picked up 300 rounds of Federal ammo to start out with and noticed that the bullets did not have a copper clad coating on them.  Is it ok to shoot non copper clad bullets in the SU-22.  I know they don't recommend those for the Ruger 10-22.  I have several 100 rounds of CCI Mini-Mags I could use.  Thanks for a good forum.
     
  17. carmike442

    carmike442 New Member

    Sep 14, 2004
    The ones with the coating are the recomended ones. They're the bulk packs in the red and black box.
     
  18. new_cal_shooter

    new_cal_shooter New Member

    36
    Nov 6, 2009
    Yes you can!  My SU-22 Is flawless on the Federal 550 pack copper clad, about 99% on Blazer lead point and 95% on ELY Sport ammo, the Ely is the most accurate and about the slowest / lowest velocity that will cycle the SU22, just clean the rifle after ever 400 rounds keep it super lightly oiled, very very light wipe on the bolt where the finnish is worn, and no problmes  ;D


    == FYI the CCI Mini-mags did not work very well at all for me, but some people love them.. FYI
     
  19. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    I don't think I've ever shot any Federal in my SU-22 that wasn't copper plated, but I've shot A LOT of copper plated Federal ammo in the SU-22. I shot a box of Blazer bulk pack (500-550 rounds) that was lead with no copper plating, but it did have a hard wax coating. It all ran fine, but that was after a break-in period, so it may not do as well when an SU-22 is new. I wondered if the wax would gum up the feed ramp or other critical parts, but it didn't. Softer wax probably would.

    Apparently, even with the steeper feed ramp that was on the first batch of SU-22 rifles, my little SU-22 is now not nearly as fussy as it was when new, several thousand rounds ago. It even seems to feed the dreaded Remington Golden Bullets now.
     
  20. U.S.Patriot

    U.S.Patriot Guest

    I have had terrible luck, with any model of CCI. I believe it has to do with the shape of the bullet. I have great luck with Federal bulk, Remington Yellow Jackets, also the Remington Vipers. The Golden Bullets are horrible also, I think it's do to the loose crimp.