Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a S&W M&P22 that I really, really enjoy. However, it has one major operational flaw that is preventing me from using it in PPC or USPSA style competition (both "fun" leagues allowing .22s).

Problem: If the 12-round magazines (twelves are all I have) are inserted a little too heavy handed, like what would be done for a speed reload, the tip of the first round in the mag is forced up which causes a mis-feed upon putting the gun into battery.

I've experimented with this problem and it is consistent across all 4 magazines and across at least three types of ammo; CCI Blazer, Federal American Eagle and Federal Bulk Pack.

Can you offer any solution to this problem? Although it is a great plinker I can't use the gun for the purpose I bought it for.

happy shooting, dv
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,703 Posts
Have you contacted S&W to ask about this? Since it's consistant across mags and brands of ammo, my initial guess would be a poor magazine design that doesn't hold the cartridges securely enough to take the shock of a firm mag insertion. Something possibly having to do with too wide or too flimsy feed lips. S&W may be aware of this problem and they might possibly have updated magazines that they would trade you. It wouldn't hurt to call and ask.

p.s. - Great pictures and descriptive text explaining the problem. I would copy your post and email it to S&W while you're speaking with them on the phone. Or provide them the URL to this thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I sent the pics to S&W via e-mail last night before posting this. If I don't hear back in 3 biz days I will call them. I think I will try some kind of thin padding on the mag bases as an interim fix. I believe part of the problem is that the mag spring is a round spring about the diameter of pencil and it is directly under the bullet tip.

happy shooting, dv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
Have you tried with 11 rounds in the mag? Perhaps the reduced spring pressure will allow the mag to grip that top round better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Have you tried with 11 rounds in the meag? Perhaps the reduced spring pressure will allow the mag to grip that top round better.

Oh, yes, good point. I have downloaded to 8, even, and encountered the same issue.

happy shooting, dv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
you might be able to replace the mag spring but one strong enough to handle the shock may not feed properly or have other problems. I wonder if the ruger mags fit? Could try that too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
you might be able to replace the mag spring but one strong enough to handle the shock may not feed properly or have other problems. I wonder if the ruger mags fit? Could try that too.
P22 mags maybe? Smith and walther have been in bed together for a long time... in my experience ruger goes out of its way to make sure their stuff isn't even similar to s&w. Although the sr22 looks a lot like the p22 so I may have just shot my own point in the foot, pun intended
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,377 Posts
I agree it should be handled with a simple feed lip adjustment.

Here is a PDF on adjusting the High Standard magazines.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbarta/hsclip.pdf

While not the same feed lip design as your S&W mags, the principal is the same.

You want to just slightly tweak the front of the feed lips to control the cartridge case with just enough pressure to keep it from jumping ship.

Pick one mag to work on first, and mark it so if it doesn't work for whatever reason, you haven't messed with all of them.

rc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Here is the answer from S&W. First, I'm happy I received an answer. Second, I was hoping for a little more.

"Hi;

I can think of 2 fix’s for this problem

!. Try to insert the mag a little easier

2. Try to tighten the lips of the mag a little

Keep in mind when you do this, you can damage the mag

Maybe impede the chambering of the other rds. if the lips

are tightened to much.

Best to not shoot the gun dry, plan your reloads around the stages."

As for #1, I tried that. Extremely hard to do under the clock. As for not shooting the gun dry, that doesn't work on a revolver neutral PPC course and doesn't work well on a 2-round per 10-target USPSA stage.

Guess I'll be playing with some mag lips. I may order a 10 rounder and see if it performs differently.

Thanks for all the suggestions, dv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I agree it should be handled with a simple feed lip adjustment.

Here is a PDF on adjusting the High Standard magazines.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbarta/hsclip.pdf

While not the same feed lip design as your S&W mags, the principal is the same.

You want to just slightly tweak the front of the feed lips to control the cartridge case with just enough pressure to keep it from jumping ship.

Pick one mag to work on first, and mark it so if it doesn't work for whatever reason, you haven't messed with all of them.

rc
I think I might be able to make one of those tools.

happy shooting, dv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
Pliers certainly can work but I think it's easier (for me) to have a "feel" for the bend if I'm not having to squeeze the pliers shut at the same time.

I think I was taught that at spring-bending class in nineteen-mumbledy-mumble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Here is what I did:

I measured the gap at the forward most point of the mag lips (where it is letting the cartridge pop up through the lips). The gap was .2055, .195, .207 and .2035 for the four mags. As expected mag #2 at .195 had the least propensity to let the cartridge slip through.

I tried crafting a tool like in RCModel's link using a Dremel tool and an old hex wrench thinking the tool steel would be of value. I could not get the kerf thin enough to apply torque while at the same time navigating the bends just below the lips. So, I resorted to an old pair of jewelry pliers I had lying about. I got the gap down to .195.

That seems to have fixed it. Of five or more practice runs it did not malfunction in that manner one time. the round did hold up on the bottom forward edge of the mag, but I had given it a weak hand release.

Will try these two mags at league this week as the stages are the same as last week so I know when I'll need those mags.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Happy shooting, dv
 

Attachments

1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top