Need some help with a Ka-Boom problem!

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Poppers_2-4, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008
    I could sure use some suggestions on this. I had about 300+rounds through my P-3AT with NO problems at all. Today I was shooting WWB value pack (95 gr. FMJ) from Wal-Mart and my 15 shot seized up the slide. I don’t remember the shot sounding any louder, the slide just froze. When I forced the slide open, here’s what I found.

    [​IMG]

    Here’s a picture of the casing I removed from the gun, and other casings I picked up before the incident.

    [​IMG]

    Obviously the split casing was the one still in the gun. The gun was just cleaned and well oiled ((Hoppe’s 9) before I shot it.
    My questions are, what do you think happened, and how would you handle this?

    ***I did a total “Fluff and Buff” before I ever shot the gun.
     
  2. regrip

    regrip New Member

    166
    Aug 10, 2007
    Dam, That's scary!
     

  3. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    What is your serial number? ("X" out the last two if you desire.)

    I don't know that help from here is what you need.  I don't think there is any amount of advice and tech savy that we can give you that will fix that one   :eek:

    Give KT a call and tell them your gun just blew up, splitting apart the entire barrel and ask for some direction from them.  They will have you send it back along with some of the ammo casings I am sure and then will replace it while they figure out what caused it.  If you or anyone else was hurt (and I mean severely) I would talk to an attorney before giving up the evidence to KT (or anyone) but it sure doesn't sound like that was the case praise God and His angels looking out for you.  

    -Scott
     
  4. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    If no one was injuried.....

    Call
    KEL-TEC CNC INDUSTRIES INC
    1475 Cox Road Cocoa FL 32926
    Tel: 321-631-0068
    FAX: 321-631-1169


    and let them know what happen.  In the past they replace pistol with new one, but same serial number

    this would be only the third or so barrel bust that have been reported here in many years. Usually the frame and grip are destroyed too
     
  5. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008
    I was by myself when it happened and realize how lucky (thankful) I was that nothing happened.
    I bought this gun about 2 months ago NIB. The serial # is JR0xx. One of my concerns was my doing a "fluff & buff" when I first got the gun. I thought I read somewhere that if you messed with the gun, it voided the warranty.
    I thought it might even be the ammo, but never saved any other casings (before this happened) to compare it to. Since this is my 1st KT, I thought someone here may have heard of something similar to this happening before.
     
  6. JRadice45

    JRadice45 New Member

    123
    Aug 22, 2008
    Well do you remember if any of the previous casings (from other range trips) looked like the ones in the picture did? all sooty in the upper half near the mouth?
    Usually soot around the case just means the pressure wasnt enough to stretch the brass and make a positive chamber seal. those casings, aside the one on the extreme left dont look like they are bulged at all. if they were all bulged near the web of the case (where the rim meets the case wall area) then I would say your chamber was slightly out of round or oversized.
    Based upon my limited knowledge I would say that was a very hot round (possibly double charged) that exceeded the elastic limits of both the brass case and the STEEL barrel.
    If you still have it, or have another box from the same purchase write down the lot # and give the info to both kel-tec and winchester.
     
  7. doubloon

    doubloon New Member

    Jan 5, 2008
    Houston-ish, TX
    That's interesting... nothing but questions here.
    Is it possible the round just before the kB was a squib?
    Was there anything left behind in the barrel?
    Did you notice any of the previous rounds "key-holing" in the target downrange?
     
  8. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    What am I (or JFB?)  Chopped Liver (or onions??)

    :-/

    -Scott
     
  9. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Scott - why so defensive?  Obviously, when he said, "nothing but questions here", he was referring to questions from himself.  Then he asked 3 questions.  And FWIW, when giving advice regarding an injury, my first thought would be a doctor, NOT a lawyer.  :-/

    Poppers - Who knows?  A squib round (lodged in the barrel) will split a barrel open.  Did the previous round sound normal?  Did it hit the target?  An over-pressured round is also a possibilty.  A defect in the metal is also possible but usually, I think such failures are ammo related.  None-the-less, send it back with the casings and a letter telling what you know.  They will replace the gun w/o regard to what caused it.  
     
  10. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    The slide is racked back and then the frame is rolled top just a little over so that the front sight is not visible


    Poppers_2-4,

    If you remove the barrel slide...
    1)did the chamber area of the barrel tear also
    2)is there a buldged area where the tear might have started

    If you do, photos are appreciated
     
  11. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    fwiw, looking at that casing picture, it definitely looks like there was some sort of pressure thing going on.

    it looks like a gun problem, although we may never know for sure.
     
  12. doubloon

    doubloon New Member

    Jan 5, 2008
    Houston-ish, TX
    What am I (or JFB?)  Chopped Liver (or onions??)...
    :-/

    -Scott

    [/quote]

    Hmmm....

    Allow me to translate ...

    Nothing but questions here == Nothing but questions from me

    here ... as in here in this particular reply ... from me ...

    P.S. ... Replied first then saw TxC's response, he is correct about my original intent.

    P.P.S ... The "that's interesting" remark was aimed at the observation about the sooty/burnt cartridges. I've don't recall ever having seen that before and I'm not sure it would have occurred to me what the cause might be or that it was significant. Don't know if it's a sight common to reloaders or not. Looking at it again, the primer on the cartridge closest to the split cartridge looks a little dark where it was struck ... shadow? pierced?
     
  13. enigma4you

    enigma4you New Member

    do the number of holes in the target match the number of shots fired? Looks to me like a squib and bad loads. The heavy coloring look like a under pressure slow burn to me. from what you said the gun did not try to eject, have you looked down the barrel to see it it still has a bullet in it?

    Call kt and the ammo manufactuer, Take several good pictures before you send it anyplace. pictures from all angles when you think you have enough take 20 more.

    Scott, I had you figured as a tuna hepler kind of guy
     
  14. Hutch01

    Hutch01 New Member

    Sep 17, 2005
    If I were forced to guess (I'm not, but I will anyway) I'd say it was not a squib round. A squib surely wouldn't cause the barrel to split all the way to the end like that. It would cause a blow out when the fired round hit the obstruction and there would likely be frame damage, as well.

    I don't recall ever seeing casings that charred. An oversize chamber would cause that.

    What is that crease and perpendicular split near the head of the offending case? Blow back from an oversize chamber that crushed up or down against the mouth of the chamber. Looks to be in about the right position for that. But, that wouldn't necessarily cause the barrel to split.

    A split case would indicate over pressure in the chamber and/or defective brass, but how did that split the barrel all the way to the end?

    This is a strange one!
     
  15. JRadice45

    JRadice45 New Member

    123
    Aug 22, 2008
    The sooty case is in all probability due to a slow burn/under pressure load. It is quite common when near the starting load recipies for different calibers, or just under the starting point. Also I cannot tell for sure unless the split case is turned to show the primer but the pic looks like the primer is flat, somewhat normal in high pressure rifle loads (223) but fairly uncommon with pistol rounds unless you have a soft primer or very hot charge.
    The end of the sooting on the case makes me wonder, is the chamber true? or is that the result of the brass construction, thinner towards the neck, and thicker towards the web/rim causing the beginning and end of the sooting.
    Checking the target for the amount of rounds fired is also a good suggestion. However I would think that if a squib did occur (primer now powder) the bullet would lodge at the start of the rifling and prevent another cartridge from being fed. I have seen this a few times as an RSO and on the firing line just enjoying myself.
    If a squib was blown out of the barrel though the more likely occurence that there would be a "doughnut" or dark shadowy ring encircling the entire bore at some point in the barrel would be more likely.
    I would seriously reccomend you get the lot number of the ammo you used and forward that info to both winchester and kel-tec. This is how ammo / pistol recalls get started.
    Glad your hand isnt busted terribly.
     
  16. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
  17. Hutch01

    Hutch01 New Member

    Sep 17, 2005
    I dunno.  These barrels split from a squib round and I have seen others, thankfully, not up close and personal.[/quote]

    The difference in the two you linked and the one in the OP is that there is no blowout or doughnut as the previous poster called it in the KT. At least one is not visible and the OP didn't mention it.

    Strange. I don't like to wear a glove for practical reasons, but after seeing this I probably "won't shoot without it again".
     
  18. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    SORRY - I should have included a lot of smileys.  I did know what you meant but I was trying to imply otherwise.

    I will try to:
    [​IMG]

    Sorry.   :-[

    -Scott
     
  19. pocketgun

    pocketgun New Member

    May 4, 2005
    Interesting thread. My guess is consistently under-pressure rounds eventually causing an obstruction near the end of the barrel. The following round split due to the obstruction and subsequently cleared it in the process. More/better pics might lead to a different tale.

    Was that a 1G P-3AT?
     
  20. burley

    burley Active Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Kansas
    Looks to be 2nd G