need help w/ tablesaw

Discussion in 'The Counter' started by lop, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Yes, I can still count to ten with my shoes on.

    I fired up the saw today and it started to go, kinda hickuped, went a little, and stopped without any 'ugly' noises. Blade turns freely, outlet cable and switch are good. No mouse chewings on cables going into the motor housing. This is one of the el cheapo ryobi portable table saws. I'll never spend a nother penny on any ryobi product. Ok for one time use, but just don't hold up.

    My saw started life as a portable, but I've built it into a table that is about 5x5 and not real easy to work on, so getting to the motor is a hassle. My question is should I bother? What are the chances that the bushings are still good? Should I just 'cut my losses' as it were and buy a real saw?

    Any suggestions on a good saw that won't break the bank? I hit the pawnshops today and saw either crap or nuthin. Wouldn't you know. You have to wade thru table saws when you need a roofing nailer, now that you need a table saw, nailers are all over the place.

    Ugly King had a Ridged for 5 bucks. Portable, but much beefier than the old ryobi. Any input would be much appreciated.
    Thanks guy,
    Lop
     
  2. project_mercy

    project_mercy New Member

    8
    Oct 17, 2012
    I have not had very good results with Ryobi. My father's portable table saw is a Ryobi, and he hasn't had any issues with it and claims he loves Ryobi for the price, but all the Ryobi things I've bought have died horrible deaths. I think it depends on how you amortize your time and tool expenses. (Ironically, i clean and vacuum my tools regularly, while my dad just throws them in the corner to rot till he next needs them).

    Back to being useful, is it a mechanical or electric failure? It sounds like something electrical. You say it died without any ugly sounds. Try taking off the blade and testing for binding. Then, isolate the motor. If you pull off the side, you should be able to get access to to the switch and the motor. Just take a current detector, or a multimeter that's fused for house AC, plug it in, and test if you have current at the switch, and at the motor. Most of the Ryobi's I've seen lately have most of the electrical parts housed in the motor assembly. Basically, if it goes, you're sort of left holding the bag.

    I would say on replacing of the saw, it would depend what kind of work you do. If you could get away with a plunge saw I would do that instead. Ideally Bosch or Festool. I use a compound sliding miter saw and plunge saw to do 90-95% of my woodworking.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012

  3. goodbrewing

    goodbrewing Active Member

    946
    Oct 2, 2008
    If you can get to the motor you might want to see if it has replaceable brushes and if they are just worn out. I have a Porter Cable that I like except for all the plastic. But it is portable and that was what I needed. It has plenty of power and hasn't let me down.
     
  4. phideaux

    phideaux Fido for short Supporter

    Feb 8, 2011
    West Ky
    Well old buddy,
    Sounds like maybe the motor gave up.(if you could just check voltage going into motor).

    I quit buying Ryobi , years ago, they are ok for very light duty.

    I have had good luck with some of the later model Craftsman saws.
    My main saw is a 1959 Craftsman T100, when I want an accurate cut, all cast iron with belt drive.

    I dont like the direct drive saws.
    Best cut ,finish, smoothness, and power come from the belt drives.
    Look for an old cast iron craftsman.

    They will cut fingers and thumbs off though,
    if you dont lower the blade to proper cutting heights.:eek::D


    Jim
     
  5. mc350

    mc350 New Member

    46
    Dec 15, 2005
    MI
    If your using an extension cord to the saw, make sure you're using the correct wire gauge for the extension cord. I've seen people using 50' ext. cords on their electrical equipment (16 ga.) then wonder why their motor burned up after repeated use. Should use minimum 14 ga. ext cord, 12 ga. is even better.
     
  6. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Thanks guys,
    Again, you are a font of good advice. Lets see,
    Mercy, Yeah, sounds electrical. No binding. I'll dis-assemlbe and test. By Plunge, do you mean compound miter? I have one, and a radial arm, and a compound rail saw. But you need a table to rip stuff. That and Dado grooves in long stock.

    Goodbrew, I'll check the brushes. I'm pretty sure it has those screws on the side to access them. The problem is that after I dis-assemble this, I'm not sure I want to put THIS saw back into my rather tight shop.

    Fido, Yeah, I looked for an old, solid saw. No luck, but I'm not done looking. Ok, it cuts off fingers, but cleanly. No wavy cut fingers, I seen the stump, I know.

    And MC, It is plugged straight into it's own socket.

    I thought back, and I've been running this thing (not daily) for about 10 years. So I'm at about 10 bucks a year on it. It is time, it is just not good timing. You know how that goes.

    Again, thanks guys,
    Lop
     
  7. project_mercy

    project_mercy New Member

    8
    Oct 17, 2012
    Ah, if it's 10 years old, then the previous suggestion on brushes is probably spot on. It may be a relatively cheap fix for you.

    I'm not sure what you mean by compound rail saw, but my guess is that you're referring to what I mean by a plunge saw, since they generally ride on tracks/rails (here's a festool one: http://kapex.festoolusa.com/images/work-tables-mft3.jpg ).

    For me at least, lately I usually just buy Bosch. If I were to pick up another portable table saw, it'd probably be the Bosch, though I'd give serious thought to the new Dewalt or the Makita one, depending on pricing.

    If you still want a table, and don't need a portable one (which you shouldn't if you have that plunge saw), then you're probably better off watching craigslist for some old cabinet tablesaw at an estate or school sale. Those old metal saws are basically indestructible outside of a few wear parts, and the gearing and guides are all metal, so you don't have to worry about constantly checking if they're still true. Also, as previously mentioned, the motor is usually belt driven, instead of direct driven, when is a lot easier on it. I know up here, every month or so I see a nice saw go for $400-500. You'll need 220v in your workspace though.
     
  8. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Ok, I was missunderstanding your plung saw term. I was thinking compond miter saw, you know, the kinda plung into the wood? The pic on your link looks like a suped up skill saw. They have the issue that the blade pulls up thru the wood, not down towards the table. I do have a hand saw without the fancy rail system, but still need the table. I'll tear it down and see if the brushes are fixable. I never think of crag's list. I'll check it out. Thanks guys,
    Lop
     
  9. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Ok, this issue is put to rest. I took the new pup on a tour of Gainsville Georgia's pawn shops. She puked on my seat, the back of hers, and the run on the seat of her's. But I found a saw. A few places had little ones. A couple of ryobi, a dinky craftsman, and one on the road to Cleveland had a nice old craftsman. Even has the jointer attachment on the side. Spindle seemed tight, and it ran up smooth when we pluged it in. Heavy cast iron and steel. The spindle has a grease fitting. The fence is the week link. It has a pinon gear to mesh with the rack on the underside of the bar it travels to do fine adjustments, but I'm going to have to square it with a square each time I lock it down. The back latch point just has to much slop in it to do anything other than short rough cuts without tuning the fence each time. I had the guy help me into the tuck with it, and broke it down into piece parts to get it into the house.
    I have a nice 6" jointer/planer, so I'll not be using the little 4" one that came with it. It is well built with heavy steel, but small and redundant. I perfer single purpose shop tools. I have a shopsmith, but only use it as a lathe or if I need to drill a reallllly deep hole.

    Oh, $175 otd.
     
  10. uniongap

    uniongap New Member

    Aug 16, 2009
    Peachtree City, Ga
    Hey lop here is a project you might want to tackle since you just bought the table saw with a rotten fence. I have looked at this to build in the future for mine. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL671DEB1C05E2AD96

    It shows you step by step how to build a precision fence for cheep! :D
     
  11. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Well, he does nice work. I'm sure he doesn't loose much sleep waiting for the Acadamy to call. :rolleyes: So, how did you find this? Crusing shop porn sites? I had a nice long, large fence on my old pos ryobi. I built it into the table, so it was 6 ft long. I just had to clamp it at both ends each time I used it. I'll probably do some kind of middle ground with this new (old) saw. I'll build some feeder and output tables, and attach a fence extention. I plan to use the fence lock that is on the saw, but I'll add a lock at the tail end.
    Hey, UG, did you see the p.m. I sent your way?

    Take care,
    Lop
     
  12. phideaux

    phideaux Fido for short Supporter

    Feb 8, 2011
    West Ky
    HeyLop,
    Not sure what model you got,
    Try looking at the underside of the fence ,
    Mine has adjustment to set/tighten the end grip of the fence.

    Justa thought.
     
  13. uniongap

    uniongap New Member

    Aug 16, 2009
    Peachtree City, Ga
    Remember I am a woodworker too. yes I saw your PM. Don't have any off days now till Christmas. :(
     
  14. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Ok Woodworkers,
    Two questions for you. I got my granddaughter to help get the saw in the shop, and got it set up level with the other tools. I have stuff with surfaces in the same area at the same hight so you can rest plywood on the radial arm saw table and miter table while you cut.

    So, anyway, I set up the saw and have two issues. The fence is not a problem, I can fix it easily enough, or just square it up. It doen't do to get in a rush around table saws. ;) But I have two issues. I cleaned the pup up and got the 600 years of sawdust out from the both nooks and cranies. I greased the shaft and the threads of the hight and tilt adjustments. Put some 600 grit on the table top, then furniture past wax. Man, that is slick and smmooth. Nuthing like good, old steel, Huh? Did I ever mention that I like old guns too?
    But I digress. I greased the threads of the screw shafts but was worried if that would be a sawdust magnet. The problem I find is that the hight adjustment is so smooth, it drops a little when the saw runs. The saw is smooth running, but still, there is vibrations. Should I strip off the grease (paint thinner? Soap & water) or find some way to chock the shaft. I put a little wood wedge twixed the wheel and the housing. Seems to work, but kinda hoky. The tilt adjustment has a lock down lever on it. Not so for the hight. Most times this isn't even an issue, but I was putting a groove into trim that needed to be the same hight thru out 40 board feet of stock. Thoughts?

    The second issue is that with the fence square, and a board ripped along it, the last very end of the board is getting tagged by the back of the blade. This happening when the fence is to the right of the blade. When on the left it didn't. That would tell me that the blade is not square in the well. Is that an adjustable thang?

    As always, I look forward to you advice.
    Thanks guys,
    Lop
     
  15. uniongap

    uniongap New Member

    Aug 16, 2009
    Peachtree City, Ga
    1st problem, blade not staying where you put it. On my sears table saw there is a blade lock knob just behind the blade elevation and tilting handle. 2ond problem is a little more complicated. Too simplify , yes your blade is not square with your fence. This requires 2 adjustments. one is squaring the blade to your blade guide , that's the channel that the guide sits in. Then you square the fence to the blade and that will cure your ills.

    Here is a link that will have a download PDF for your table saw.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yIGYBA&usg=AFQjCNFBZnur1mMuunBM07BVAYroV4mNTQ
     
  16. 2Eagle_Dad

    2Eagle_Dad Well-Known Member

    Cannot speak to your saw, but usually the answer is yes.

    You loosen the top and put in a brand new top quality blade. Raise the blade to the max height. Use a dial gauge to make the distance from the miter groove to the flat of the blade equal on both the leading and trailing ends. Stay in from the teeth and measure as close to the bed as possible for best results. If you make or buy a fixture for the dial guage (Woodcrafters sells them) you should be able to slide it forward and back along the side of the blade without variation.

    After it is set, tighten the top back down, checking the alignment as you torque, and after you are done.

    Another hint: Get or make a stack of zero clearance throat plates. Mark each one with a sharpie as to which brand/model (such as: "Freud 24 tooth rip" or some such) of blade it goes to. These do wonders in controlling chip out.

    ETA: UG Types faster than I do... :eek:
     
  17. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Best site on the whole web. :D

    Thanks guys,
    Lop
     
  18. DARTHPAUL

    DARTHPAUL Well-Known Member

    Wish I'da paid more attention to this thread. I got an old Rockwell belt driven. Sorry lop.
     
  19. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Ok, a few things. Darth, how many guns do you own? How many do I own? Just because I have one saw, does that mean I dont' need/want another?
    Glenn, That sure is a craftsman table saw. I don't believe the guy who drew up those diagrams was born in the house my table saw built, but maybe his Dad was. :D Lazer guide? Safety switch? It is good info, and I can use it. I thank you, but this saw has a few more years on it. The blade is out of true with the table. I'll dig into it and see what I can do.
     
  20. DARTHPAUL

    DARTHPAUL Well-Known Member

    Well I know for a fact you owns more firearms than I:) Saws, maybe not. That ain't a bet tho.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012