My Sub 2000 Gen 2 just went Kaboom

Discussion in 'Sub9 and Sub2000 Rifles' started by gassgreg, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. gassgreg

    gassgreg Member

    5
    Oct 10, 2017
    I bought this Kel Tec Sub 2000 9mm Glock (Gen 2) on Monday 10-9-17 at night from a guy on Arms List. I took it out after work on Tuesday 10-10-17 to try it out. Cleaned it and all, it looked good. I was using the factory magazine with Winchester ammo. First several shots were great, I was getting used to putting my face hard against the stock to be able to aim. So, I was hitting good that way, so I thought I would finish the last eight or so rounds by rapid firing them. I held the gun a bit lower and opened up. A few shots into this exercise, had a louder than normal boom, my left arm starts hurting real bad. I look down and the gun barrel it split open, my left wrist is bleeding, and I am dumb founded as to why this happened. This seems like a fairly new gun in good shape. I called Kel Tec, they guy I talked to was very casual about it like having a gun blow up in your hands is an every day occurrence. He tells me to box it up and send it to them and they will let me know what it will cost to fix it. I guess I am going to do that, I took a lot of pictures of it as well. I wish I could have found a new one to purchase so I would have the lifetime warranty. As it is, I bet they say it is not under warranty or something like that, and it will cost me just as much again to get this gun fixed. If they charge me, I am going to insist that they send me back my barrel that is split open so I can show to everybody as often as possible. I did not know that this gun had a history of blowing up or I would maybe have looked at a different carbine. Just thought I would put this out there for everybody that is thinking about getting this gun. I will attach a picture if it lets me.[​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Jake

    Jake Member

    21
    Sep 23, 2017
    Kel Tec customer service has a great reputation, I'm sure they'll take care of you. I'm glad you didn't get seriously hurt.

    How far down the barrel did it burst open? Was there a quieter than normal boom before the louder than normal one?

    Does that sound like a squib then a shot to anyone?
     

  3. gassgreg

    gassgreg Member

    5
    Oct 10, 2017
    I think it s a squib. It split about 2” from the point where the barrel break is. Also, the barrel is still blocked. I am not doing anything to it so the Kel Tec people can see it as it is. I figure if this is a problem with all f the firearms then they need as much information as possible to figure t out. If it is unique to my firearm, then, oh well, I bought a dud. I have been shooting all of my life, I’m in my 50’s now, and this is my first firearm related injury or accident, so I really can’t complain, especially since I am here typing this response instead of in the hospital or worse.
     
  4. MarkCO

    MarkCO Active Member

    193
    Aug 30, 2016
    Colorado
    Sounds like an ammo issue to me so far.
     
  5. Jake

    Jake Member

    21
    Sep 23, 2017
    A squib isn't the fault of the firearm, it's a bad round, in this case followed up by another shot. That follow up shot is what burst the barrel. That energy has to go somewhere so it created its own exit. It's great that you didn't get seriously hurt

    Kel Tec does have good customer service so they may still help you out but if they don't, don't be surprised.
     
  6. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    If there are 2 bullets in the barrel, no firearm can survive that.
     
  7. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    There is no history of these guns blowing up. I have been on this site since about 2000, and have read zillions of posts about the sub2k. Surely there must have been a similar case or two back somewhere, but I honestly can't recall one. I can recall a KT pistol or two that suffered a squib round, and it sounds like a squib round lodged in the barrel. When the next round hits it, whatever the gun, the barrel generally blows up and splits, but as long as you've been shooting, you know this.

    Since you are not the original purchaser, you have no warranty. They will charge you for parts, and I think a modest flat service charge that I can't recall. Someone without CRS syndrome will elaborate, I'm sure. Suffice to say, they won't make any money off of you and you'll get a pretty much new, carefully gone over and test-fired subbie. That is the good news and I'm sure you could use some.

    I'm glad you weren't more seriously injured. FWIW, rapid fire is fun and squib rounds are rare, but...
    Come back to this thread and let us know what you learn. Hopefully, you'll get it back in under a month.
     
    Liberty4Ever likes this.
  8. upland1911

    upland1911 Member

    6
    Jul 3, 2017
    Hopefully you still have the Winchester ammo box with lot # so you can contact Winchester.
     
  9. -Dragon-

    -Dragon- Member

    7
    May 15, 2017
    Hipoints can
     
    moona11 and 3wbdriver like this.
  10. gassgreg

    gassgreg Member

    5
    Oct 10, 2017
    I have found several instances of the Kel Tec going kaboom just by using a google search. I guess not everybody comes to this forum, but I felt it most relevant to come here, as this is the Kel Tec forum. I know I don't get a warranty, I always try to buy used guns if I can, as you usually get a much better "bang" for your buck (pun intended). It's just that I have been using this ammo type in my other weapons and no problems. My 9mm guns include a Hi Point 995 carbine, Beretta 92FS, and a Browning Hi Power. This ammo is a few months old, and I have shot some of it in my other weapons without issue. I am just wondering if the barrel of the Kel Tec just gets hot and acts differently than the other guns I have, and the round just didn't make it down the barrel. I am not a metal expert, and by no means am I an expert on much of anything, I just go by my past experiences and common sense to get me through life. I will keep posted on the outcome of this episode. It is making me rethink buying used guns. I just hate to spend all the money on new when a carefully maintained weapon should last several lifetimes. This weapon looked like a brand new gun. I am trying to figure out how to find the age on it from it's serial number, but I can't find that anywhere.
     
  11. Will_White

    Will_White Member

    3
    Sep 28, 2017
    It's not the fault of the gun, or really that ammo in general, it's the fault of the one squib load followed by another full power round. If that that round got in the high point carbine and you continued to shoot it would of most likely blown up the high point just the same.
     
  12. Brasky

    Brasky Member

    26
    Jul 22, 2017
    This is easily an ammo problem so I see no reason why you are blaming kel Tec. Winchester had a QC error and sent you an underpowered load which then lodged in the barrel and you fired another round into it causing the barrel to split. I would be calling Winchester to complain not Kel Tec as it is Winchesters problem.

    Where did you get this ammo? Have you checked to ensure someone didn't sell you reloaded ammo in a Winchester box? I have seen that many a time at gun shows and in pawn shops.

    And yes this ammo works fine in your other firearms because there was probably only one under-powered load.

    If Kel Tec fixes this free of charge then you should be jumping for joy and loving Kel Tec. If not then I wouldn't be surprised as it wasn't their problem it was Winchesters. I have read of numerous issues with Winchester ammunition across the boards I frequent
     
    MarkCO likes this.
  13. gassgreg

    gassgreg Member

    5
    Oct 10, 2017
    I’m not blaming anybody. I am just stating the facts as I know them. Any inference that I am blaming Kel Tec, Winchester, or even God is just plain mistaken. I am stating that yes, I have found where people say their Kel Tec exploded, someone above said none ever have, which is false. I said I haven’t had a gun blow up in my hands before, which I haven’t. I buy my ammo at Wal Mart and Cheaper Than Dirt, they say it is new, I believe them. I don’t mean to hurt anybody’s feelings by stating my gun blew up in my hands, but to insist that one issue or the other is the reason without any evidence is crazy, that is why I try not to place blame, just state what I know to be true. When Kel tc repairs my gun, if it is not too expensive, then I will have some sort of answer, if it is too expensive, I will have them send it back to me as a trophy af a bad experience I survived, and a lesson learned.
     
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  14. 3wbdriver

    3wbdriver Moderator Staff Member

    Nov 2, 2005
    Louisiana
    You can call Kel-tec and read them the serial number for a born on date. As for the rest I will acknowledge it has a rather thin walled barrel. But I do believe the consensus that it was probably a squib load is accurate. Especially since you were rapid firing at the time and it's hard to detect a squib during that, much less stop the next trigger squeeze in time. Kel-tec's last standard that I had heard referencing non-warrantied repairs was a straight $40 labor fee, but probably no charge for parts. But this could have changed in the past couple years.
     
  15. railroader

    railroader Member

    7
    Sep 1, 2017
    You know normally when I get a squib in semi auto where the bullet gets stuck in the barrel the gun doesn’t cycle. For me to fire another round into the bullet I would have hand chamber another round. I reload and have had a few squibs and that is what happens to me. The round has no powder and the primer launches the bullet part way up the barrel.
     
    ral357 likes this.
  16. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    Since every other billboard I pass on the road these days is for a Personal Injury Lawyer, I can PROMISE you that they will gladly hand him a new gun to get that bursted barrel in their hands and away from cameras.
    If he sent it in with only a note that said "Please fix, I have pictures", he won't pay a cent.
    To do otherwise would be totally illogical.
    I was in a wreck years ago, workman's comp paid all the medical bills. The 'at-fault' insurance company guy met with me; all I wanted them to do was replace 2 electronic devices that were destroyed ($250).
    He told me to take them places to get an estimate on having them :quote:repaired:quote:.
    Stupid.
    Very stupid!
    Down-payment for a house? nod.gif
    Why yes, that will do nicely instead:kiss:.
     
    FLT likes this.
  17. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    No sir, your paraphrase of my remark is what is false. I said I could not recall this happening with a subbie. I also said I could recall a couple instances with KT pistols where a kaboom split a barrel, assumed to be the result of a squib round. No normal round traveling down an unempeded barrel is going to split a barrel open. The path of least resistence is right out of the bore. This is an ammo problem. While an over-charged round could cause a kaboom, I think a squib is more likely. If you plug the barrel in any gun and fire a round, what you experienced is what happens.

    And thanks CJ. I thought their labor charge was $40 but wasn't sure it hadn't changed. I did not recall the free parts. They do stand behind their guns, even when out of warranty.
     
    Retired1 and haugrdr like this.
  18. gassgreg

    gassgreg Member

    5
    Oct 10, 2017
    I was just referring to your first sentence --There is no history of these guns blowing up. I have been on this site since about 2000, and have read zillions of posts about the sub2k. No paraphrasing, just plain and simple to read. If you were to read this forum as much as you say, then you would have seen this post from August 5, 2011 by sgn1003. I will paste what he says here: I had my .40 sub2000 for about a month brand new and decided to try it out yesterday. First shot went well, then the second shot... it blows up on me. A small fragment hits my forehead and saw my a small blood dripping on my forehead. Cut was nothing major as I was also wearing eye protection. (thank goodness)
    There was no visible damage on the gun on the exterior. I checked the chamber, and found the brass without the center case and primer gone. Some of the polymer at the top of the chamber is also, chipped. Now I can't even take the brass out of the chamber. Ammo was a Magtech.
    Now I am scared to shoot this gun. Will Keltech fix this under warranty or should I claim it with Magtech?
    That only took me about 10 seconds to find with a Google search. I haven't spent that much time looking after finding several, but I thought that since you made this statement, I had to show you that even on this forum, there is evidence that this has happened before. As I say, state what you know to be factual and truthful, and to imply that you have read "zillions" of posts on this subject, and you are an administrator on this forum, then you should have seen this post, and would not mislead other readers on this subject.

    I am not trying to start an argument, but when my statements are challenged, then I must quantify what I have said in order to show that I am not just making things up.
     
  19. Jake

    Jake Member

    21
    Sep 23, 2017
    :useless:

    Come on man, let's see those kaboom pics.
     
  20. Brasky

    Brasky Member

    26
    Jul 22, 2017
    I'm sorry but that is not a sub 2000 "blowing up" that was a bad primer which caused damage to the sub and sounds like the sub is fine except for a cosmetic chip. Please post pics of your sub so we can further evaluate