My KSG after 3-1/2 years....

Discussion in 'KSG Bullpup Shotgun' started by CharlieB, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    339
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    I think this journey started in 2012 or so. My local FFL had a deal on pre-order KSG's. Pay a certain amount up front, and... you'd get a KSG at a ridiculously low price.

    I paid, and I waited, and waited... and waited.

    Let me sidetrack that part of the story for a bit, because after nearly a year, I was getting antsy. I trusted the FFL, but... it looked like pie in the sky for getting a KSG. And in retrospect, I'm probably better off not getting one of those, as the Gen2 is better.

    So here I was, antsy.... and I was looking at shotguns online and said... HOLY CRAP... I gotta have a Serbu Super-Shorty. It just hit me. It was must do. So, I called up Mark Serbu, and got on the list, as Remington 870's "out of the factory" with pistol grips were hard to get, and there was a huge back order. Huge as in 8 months more. Finally, one day, I got a call from Bunny Hunter, my 870 was up, and the serial number had been assigned. I could do my ATF Form 4. So, I got all the paperwork perfectly in order, and waited.... another 8 months.

    In the meantime... it was looking like the KSG deal wasn't gonna happen. I asked my FFL to re-purpose my down payment, and ended up with a brace of Ruger Bearcat revolvers, in stainless.

    Then... as I was waiting for the Serbu paperwork to drip its way though the ATF, about 5 months into a then unknown length of time, KSGs became available, and I was able to get one at a decent price through CDNN.

    In the end, and after over two years of waiting, I ended up with the Serbu Super-Shorty and the KSG. Worse match-ups could be made!

    Here's my take on both. Without a doubt, the KSG beats ANY SBS that could ever be envisioned, except a shorter barrel KSG (which exists). I'm saying that because if you take a standard length stock (placed on the shotgun, not attached) for the Serbu, you end up with a shotgun that is just the same size as a KSG, but has only a 6 inch barrel, and 2 shot magazine. Hmmmm.

    So as far as SBS goes, there is absolutely no reason to get one, as the KSG fulfills all requirements, plus has a near normal length barrel, and holds more shots than you can shoot on a range without breaking into a serious grin.

    I've got, I dunno, more than a few boxes of mostly bird shot through the KSG. I've had no failures except those caused by me - short stroking. I have polished the chamber well. It glistens. It has a choke adapter, but I run the CYL choke in it. It works, I'm happy with it. No I have not regulated the MBUIS front and rear sight to accommodate the POI of slugs.

    On the other-other hand, if I had a shotgun to use in the house, it would be the Serbu. Its short, light, point-able. Only three shots, but you can make them count. Yes it breaths some fire. Yes its more of a handful than a KSG. But the size, fold-able fore stock, and ease of use, do work in its favor. I've got a saddle for extra shells on the side of the receiver. I have over 1000 rounds through the Serbu, because its FUN to shoot too. Not that the KSG isn't, but the Super-Shorty is a real fun gun.

    And I'm trying to think of a better "likely" alternative situation when I'd rather have the KSG. I can think of lots of real UNlikely ones... I suppose as a camp gun it would be great, loaded with buckshot. Doing the occasional "security" detail, it would be very comfy. As a boat gun, I'd take it. But for truck, bedroom or motorbike... the most likely places... I think I'd favor the Serbu.

    And, I understand this is the KSG forum, and I'm not here to kvetch about the KSG. Its just that I've had my hands on both for a while now and have formed opinions. I also realize that not everyone can own a Serbu Super-Short because of paperwork or restriction. I'll say straight up, I'm glad I got the KSG. Zero regrets. I'd buy another in a NY second if somehow I was KSG-less for some reason. Same goes for the Serbu Super Shorty.

    Anyway, that's my take on things... Happy New Year everyone!
     
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  2. wayne-o

    wayne-o Member

    29
    Jul 10, 2011
    chicago
    Nice write up. I bought a FNH PS90 waiting for my SUB2000.
     
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  3. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    339
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    One think I forgot... the KSG with the cylinder choke patters so close to Super Shorty, at seven yards, its not worth mentioning any difference. I didn't shoot my KSG next to the Serbu Super Shorty until after I had the choke adapter on the KSG, so I can't say what the plain barrel KSG would do. They're both fairly wide chokes. Folks think "short barrel=WIDE pattern" and that is not always the case. Lots depend on the barrel crown and what is going on inside the barrel. My SSS has a very long "lead" then about an inch and a half of straight bore. Maybe its acting like its own "one big choke", dunno how that works in such short barrels.
     
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  4. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    42
    Jul 11, 2017
    I think, by choosing Flight Control buck and not choking her, I saved a bit of weight but lost some usability in "survival gun" mode hunting things.
     
  5. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    339
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    Folks think "buckshot" and they think "double ought". Might be good for close range deer, literally buckshot. I think of the poor SOBs in Westchester County, NY who are rifle-less and are forced to use a shotty on deer.

    But for getting someone to STOP RIGHT NOW, you gotta hit 'em. And there are damned few pellets in OO buck. I prefer a few more. I'd even take T or TT size shot, if you could find it. I've got some 2x4 size, but I'm holdin' that back for ducks.
     
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  6. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    73
    Jul 17, 2017
    One of the key factors in using a shotgun is understanding the limitations on range for any load.
    To be effective you have to be within that range to insure effective hits.

    This is actually a fairly complicated combination of choke, shot, and type of shell.
    Everything has to be considered when applied to the use for the gun, whether hunting birds or defense against people and dangerous animals.
    This has to take into effect getting a solid hit with a small pellet that fails to stop, or a clean miss with a large pellet that would do the job, if only it had hit.

    Ballistics experts say the most ballistically effective anti-personnel load is #1 buckshot.
    It gives more pellets with a higher hit potential then #00, but causes more penetration to the critical depth then #4 buckshot.

    The key is to test the gun-choke-ammo combination at various ranges, to determine the best load for your situation.
    The problem is to not overestimate the distance at which the gun will actually make stopping hits on target.
    Too close with smaller shot and you may not stop an attack, especially if he's wearing a heavy coat.
    Too far away and heavy buckshot can simply miss due to pattern spread.

    Same thing holds with chokes.
    A tight pattern is good at longer ranges, but a tight choke at across the living room range may not allow the pattern to open up enough and can cause clean misses.
     
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  7. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    339
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    Well... its sort of a choice, based on a good hit, of getting whacked with 16 shots of .32 Auto, or 27 shots of .25 Auto.

    Then again... if its a marginal hit... mo' pellets is mo' betta (my take at least).
     
  8. MedicineRattle

    MedicineRattle Member

    38
    Mar 28, 2017
    Lost Wages, NV
    To fork the thread ever so slightly: You mentioned "standard length stock" which is where I'm going off the rails here... the Mossy Shockwave is the same length, has a 14" barrel and holds 5+1. It weighs less, and holding fewer shells has operationally less weight (unless you wanted to load your KSG to half capacity, and that's just silly). Now, technically it's also not a "shotgun", but it fires any of the same 12g loads the KSG does (including mini shells, not sure how the Serbu processes them).

    _Personally_ I prefer my SW over the form factor of something like the Short. Like everything, it's personal preference based on habits, background, even physical layout of the property. But, like anything, we're going to debate it ad nauseam, because it's the internet. ;)
    :drwho:
     
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  9. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    339
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    Well the Super Shorty is a full ten inches shorter at 16 inches.

    The Mossberg Shockwave is 26.x inches, as also is the KSG.

    At THAT point, the KSG is once again a pretty decent choice at the same size with damn neaer 2-1/2 times the firepower. I suppose weight might be a factor for the Mossy... if ya hadda go real light.

    Same holds true for that newish Remington model which Serbu is buying up like crazy. It was a long wait for an 870 based Super Shorty, since Remington was only releasing "pistol grip" shotguns every so often, mostly for police sales. So, Serbu got what they got, hence the backorder. Serbu has to take a pistol grip shotgun and convert it to AOW. They cant start with a stocked shotgun, since then it would be a short barreled shotgun, regardless of the final stock length, due to intricacy in our gun laws.

    "....But, like anything, we're going to debate it ad nauseam, because it's the internet."

    No, I fully agree, that situational circumstances and personal preference, even familiarity are all important contributing factors. But... OTOH... debate can be fun too, so long as its not nasty.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  10. FatDogFarting

    FatDogFarting Active Member

    194
    Aug 3, 2014
    Gulf Coast FL
    CharlieB.....first of all, I would like to tell you I really enjoy reading your posts and replies. They are always interesting, and your sincerity in trying to help anyone with the many issues that have come up in the past years with operation/prep/repairs of a KSG is phenomenal...and of course we both live in Florida...hahahaha.
    Anywho....I recently purchased the Mossberg 12ga Shockwave (Sportsmansguide.com) and I have to say it is a very controllable short barrel firearm, less weight for sure and you know me, "Old School" and it's based on the old 590 platform, I'm sold. The recoil is very manageable, not like my pistol grips I have that seem like my wrist is about to break...hahahaha. Nothing yet has pushed it back into the safe with my retired KSG which I do like a lot, but.......the shockwave is much easier to move around than the KSG, oh and did I mention 590 platform....:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018 at 7:04 PM
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  11. GearBolt

    GearBolt Active Member

    175
    Jul 12, 2016

    Slugs. Just eliminate the guess work. Feed her slugs so when she bites the bad guys if... they ever should enter your domain unchecked.

    I am not an expert. Even though i play one on CNN. But. One object. One impact. One energy directed. Equals ouch. In living room distances. Point the dot. Pull the trigger. At 50yrds. Point the dot. Pull the trigger. At 100yrds. Point the dot. Pull the trigger.

    Slugs @ 1000mph. Rhyme with fun. Less complication. Cause in a someone just kicked your door. Stress kicks in. And the magic fight or flight juices just kick in. Motor reflexs and dexterity drop. You don't have time. To reason. Your brain speeds up. And slows down.

    But. You have slugs already loaded and you point and click. And physics, chemistry and thermodynamics do the rest as long as you hold on for the ride.

    (Just my opinion)


    Also. Read -on killing- -on comabat- Dan Grossman. Good insight towards stress.
     
  12. flyer

    flyer Member

    29
    Nov 30, 2015
    I have yet to see someone consistently shoot the Shockwave as effectively as the shoulder fired KSG. Now, there are some very practiced SW shooters that can do very well but it is horrendously obvious when someone is new to that platform. With the KSG, anyone who's fired a shotgun before has little to no difficulty. When a friend and I were letting some new shooters try out the KSG and the SW, some could not even hit the paper at 15 yds with the SW and LE buckshot loads. I don't recall one of them missing with the KSG. I liked the SW well enough that I may purchase one but I can tell it will take a little practice.
     
  13. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    339
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    And that, Sir, is why they put Mary Ann _and_ Ginger on the show!
     
  14. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    339
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    Aye. Practice with exactly what you're doing, and what you're doing it with, and to what.

    I've noticed with two firearms that I've got - Super Shorty, and oddly the Charter Boomer .44, it could be me, my thoughts and behavior, or maybe the way things work, but I find if I "think" about aiming at their balls, and try to, I end up with a center of mass hit. That took some figuring out! But I can pretty much hit the COM at will on a semi full size silhouette at 7 yards... don't hardly needa think bout it no mo
     
  15. FatDogFarting

    FatDogFarting Active Member

    194
    Aug 3, 2014
    Gulf Coast FL
    flyer, were your friends doing the old hip shot with the SW? That of course like you know takes more practice for sure than sighting down the bead. From what I have seen and read on the net, a lot of people think the SW is a "hip only" shooting firearm. I found it rather accurate without much practice with my arms out-stretched using the bead.....hold on for sure. I was popping the targets over and over with slugs/.00. Yes, buy one.....I believe I paid 351.00, using the four pay method on Sportsmanguide.com.
     
  16. flyer

    flyer Member

    29
    Nov 30, 2015
    No hip shooting - I would not advocate that - only if it's so close that it's about all you can do. The problem that I saw was a focus on the bead without looking down the full length of the barrel thus, allowing the grip "or butt" to wander. Easy enough to explain but the shoulder fired shotguns are easier to accomplish it with. As with anything, practice will get you there. Still, if I knew I would be using a shotgun for primarily at or near the limiting range of the variety of ammo you can get today, I'd get a shoulder fired one. Right tool for the job. For fairly close work I think the SW would shine.
     
  17. GearBolt

    GearBolt Active Member

    175
    Jul 12, 2016
    This was my neighbor a EMT who grew up in the city. And one time back in high school 18yrs ago he went to a friends out in the country to shoot a 22 maybe 20 rounds once. He went shooting with me one day. Been wanting to get a gun to have at the house incase someone broke in while he and the kids and family were asleep but thought it was more complicated then getting a sex change and the goverment was the only ones who you can get them from.

    I explained to him the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES SAYS VERY CLEARLY. "THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."

    That no one in government cant take from you this or any right granted to you by the Constitution of the United States. And to do so is treason. -(kinda like what killary commited but they do nothing about)- (just saying...)

    And so. For your viewing pleasure. A United States Born Citizen pops his cherry of understanding his Rights. And freely expressing them for the first time aware now that he has them because of the communist education system that constantly made sure not to teach him.



    Never before shot a KSG. Or anything other then a 22 18yrs ago. A few simple minuets to explain the actions. And told. "I can only show you the door. You must enter."...... -(little matrix for ya.)-


    Anyways. He is now on his way to own his very own KSG shotgun for home defense. And. Now seeks more information about his Constitution.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018 at 6:20 AM
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  18. flyer

    flyer Member

    29
    Nov 30, 2015
    Very cool. I had a similar experience when my neighbor and his wife decided to buy their first gun for home defense. I let them shoot a revolver and semi auto handgun as well as my 870 and KSG. They both giggled when shooting the shotguns. It's pretty fun to watch that entire target wave in the blast for a couple of seconds after discharging a 12 gauge at 7 yards. They ended up getting a Ruger LCR .38 last year. Now they've enrolled in a self defense class and are asking me about shotguns and AR's. Funny how people who've never even touched a gun get hooked on shooting - your friend is may be hooked now.