[SafetyfirstONT]

This post is mainly for people looking at the comparisons of the 870 platform (really almost any standard HD shotgun platform) vs the KS7.
Starting off, I have personally put (at this point) a few hundred rounds through each shooting various loads of buck and bird shot. Here are some of MY observations :
× Shooting at a high rate (quick follow up shots ) the 870 felt a bit more comfortable. I use the tried and true push pull method to control recoil. With the ks7 , I'm a bit more mindful of the "pushing " part . I'm sure with some more range time and possible forend upgrades to the ks7 I can get more comfortable with it.
× recoil is a bit more recognized with the ks7 due to it being a lighter weapon than your standard 870 ( my 870 clocks in at 7 ish pounds) . I recently brought out my ks7 for my friends to try and they didn't like it too much , due to the "massive recoil" . 870 is more beginner friendly with the recoil especially with the appropriately sized stock. Fun fact, these friends I took to the range to shoot the ks7 are not really shotgun guys.
× 870 is a little more forgiving in the racking of rounds . ks7 requires a more robust action when racking a round . not a problem for me but maybe a problem for someone new to shotguns.
× easier to clear jams on the 870 due to the more open workspace of the action. When I was having extraction issues with the ks7, clearing those jams was a bit more involved due to the confined workspace . keltec has taken care of this (extraction issues) but a jam still can happen. This is not really a Keltec issue but more of a bullpup design issue. I still like the trade off being its a smaller weapon .
× loading rounds in the 870 a bit easier . ks7 requires a bit more attention due to the aforementioned work space. Repetition will sort that out .
×adding to the recoil part, follow up shots are a little more challenging with the KS7. Not hard to do, but requires a little more effort to stay on target .

I know this post sounds like I'm sort of poo pooing on the KS7. Not at all. If anything I just sharing my personal experience with these platforms . The take away I get from my experince is the ks7(and ksg ) is not a beginners shotgun . it takes a little work to get up to speed with it but once you do , its a fun gun to shoot. I have more fun with it than the 870.
I plan on doing some upgrades to the ks7 to make it a little heavier ? Maybe help with the recoil a bit.
In adding to the weight , adding the pic rail and buis . I think I might have grown out of the carry handle.

Just some thoughts from a guy who owns an 870 and a KS7 and actually shoots them . Maybe these thoughts can help someone in the market .

 

[silverback]

I agree with your perceptions.

Putting an after market recoil pad will help with felt recoil. Plus dont chicken wing your hold. Its better to put the stock in the cup of your shoulder while taking a forward defensive non bladed stance. This will move percieved recoil from the shoulder and place in more of the upper chest area. Spreading recoil over a wider area of the body. The shooter needs to hold the weapon firmly into the body and lean into the shot.

Conversely the chicken wing bladed stance places recoil on the small area of the ball of the shoulder. The bladed stance keeps the shooter off balance and recoil is perceived as more intense.

This practice works well with conventional pumps as well.


Taking the time to practice loading the ks7 is critical. Having shot the ksg, ks7 mossberg 500 many 200 rounds range sessions each over the years. I find conventional pump guns much easier to reload and clear malfunctions. Then the malfuntions are usually user induced as it seems we all want to shoot way too fast.

The ks7 is just so darn compact and light for its round count
Reloading can be learned and does become just as easy as conventional pumps after practice. You cant get a quick chamber load like you can with the convetional pump.
You can get a bit if a quicker load if you bring the charging fore hand back.
This raises the shot elevator arms and you can insert a round straight into chamber. A little force is required to split the arms a bit.
Quicker then loading in mag tube but no where as quick as conventional pumps.

Malfunctions on the ks7 diminish when the shooter takes the time to be deliberate with charging the weapon.

I am always torn between going back to a conventional 500 untill i take the ks7 to the range. It reminds me that i am better served with the ks7.

Shooters just need to put the practice time in with the ks7 and they will appreciate its attributes.

 

[silverback]

This video decribes the.loading. you have to look past the mask lol...

 

[silverback]

I would like to see howbthe ks7 stacks up to the TFBTV 500 round torture test. If the ks7 would pass this test it would solidify my confidence in it.

 

[SafetyfirstONT]

For me I wouldnt add a recoil pad. The LOP on the ks7 is perfect for me. I would keep it as is. Recoil for me isn't too bad . its for people that are recoil sensitive that may need it. properly set LOP will help manage recoil in my experience. I did a shotgun course with my 870 with the standard 14 Lop and it was brutal for recoil .
For me , adding a little weight in addition to upgrading the forend to help safely employ the push pull technique is all i need .
Having options is great . I like have both an 870 and a ks7. Why choose one ? Choose both. If you have the means .

 

[silverback]

I found.length of pull critical. I stay around 13 . 14 seema a bit too long. I dont feel stable with that length of pull.

Yeah been thinking on picking up a 500 in the future. Looking for a beater. Super easy and cheap to restore.

 

[dfariswheel]

The KS7 and other bullpup guns are not for everybody and every situation.
They fill the need for an ultra-short shotgun that still has a buttstock to shoulder.
They're not all that suited for use as a full-on combat shotgun in open warfare or an extended gun fight.
They're best at "Get out of my face" in the living room at 3:00am.
The KS7 is a special purpose gun that's not a do it all shotgun.

Recoil reduction is largely a function of a better recoil pad and ammo selection.
A better recoil pad doesn't have to be longer, the new factory optional pad seems to work very well.
You get the most felt recoil reduction from using reduced recoil shells.
These can maintain home defense range effectiveness with a lot less recoil, and speeds up follow up shots.

A smoother operating gun is a more reliable gun, so you might take a look at the KS7 Fluff & Buff.

Fluffing and Buffing the Kel-Tec KS7 Shotgun.

SMOOTHING THE KEL-TEC KS7 SHOTGUN FOR IMPROVED OPERATION The new Kel-Tec KS7 shotgun is possibly the best pump-action bullpup shotgun ever marketed in the USA, but even it can benefit from smoothing of a few key areas. It's obvious the Kel-Tec engineers learned a lot from the older dual...

www.thektog.org

This makes the KS7 about as smooth feeling as any other shotgun and goes a long way toward reducing the chances of a short stroke.

 

[nraforlife53]

Convert your 870 into a bullpup

Bullpup Unlimited Shotgun Conversion Kit (for the Remington 870) (bullpuparmory.com)

 

[silverback]

Maverick 88 about 6lbs and 870 7lbs. The converstion kit 4 lbs 12 ozs. Thats a 10 to 11 lb gun. i think ill stick with the ks7. 12 gauge ammo is heavy enough. The ks7 is about a 6 lb gun.

 

[Daverm]

This post is mainly for people looking at the comparisons of the 870 platform (really almost any standard HD shotgun platform) vs the KS7.
Starting off, I have personally put (at this point) a few hundred rounds through each shooting various loads of buck and bird shot. Here are some of MY observations :
× Shooting at a high rate (quick follow up shots ) the 870 felt a bit more comfortable. I use the tried and true push pull method to control recoil. With the ks7 , I'm a bit more mindful of the "pushing " part . I'm sure with some more range time and possible forend upgrades to the ks7 I can get more comfortable with it.
× recoil is a bit more recognized with the ks7 due to it being a lighter weapon than your standard 870 ( my 870 clocks in at 7 ish pounds) . I recently brought out my ks7 for my friends to try and they didn't like it too much , due to the "massive recoil" . 870 is more beginner friendly with the recoil especially with the appropriately sized stock. Fun fact, these friends I took to the range to shoot the ks7 are not really shotgun guys.
× 870 is a little more forgiving in the racking of rounds . ks7 requires a more robust action when racking a round . not a problem for me but maybe a problem for someone new to shotguns.
× easier to clear jams on the 870 due to the more open workspace of the action. When I was having extraction issues with the ks7, clearing those jams was a bit more involved due to the confined workspace . keltec has taken care of this (extraction issues) but a jam still can happen. This is not really a Keltec issue but more of a bullpup design issue. I still like the trade off being its a smaller weapon .
× loading rounds in the 870 a bit easier . ks7 requires a bit more attention due to the aforementioned work space. Repetition will sort that out .
×adding to the recoil part, follow up shots are a little more challenging with the KS7. Not hard to do, but requires a little more effort to stay on target .

I know this post sounds like I'm sort of poo pooing on the KS7. Not at all. If anything I just sharing my personal experience with these platforms . The take away I get from my experince is the ks7(and ksg ) is not a beginners shotgun . it takes a little work to get up to speed with it but once you do , its a fun gun to shoot. I have more fun with it than the 870.
I plan on doing some upgrades to the ks7 to make it a little heavier ? Maybe help with the recoil a bit.
In adding to the weight , adding the pic rail and buis . I think I might have grown out of the carry handle.

Just some thoughts from a guy who owns an 870 and a KS7 and actually shoots them . Maybe these thoughts can help someone in the market .

I felt the same, my KSG was a bit to get use to. Add a vertical grip and practice. Now that I’ve had the KSG for several years and shot too many rounds to count I rather have and use the KSG for personal defense. I no longer short stroke it ( Dam 45 years of using 870 style shotguns ). Bullpup shotguns are the future. My 2cents.

 

[Daverm]

Maverick 88 about 6lbs and 870 7lbs. The converstion kit 4 obs 12 ozs. Thats a 10 to 11 lb gun. Thats ok i think ill stick with the ks7. 12 gauge ammo is heavy enough. The ks7 is about a 7 lb gun.

KSG 6.9lbs empty, add up to 15 rounds of 2.75 in shells. I look at it this way, I can either carry the ammo in a Pouch or in the gun. No need to grab that extra mag before heading outside to check up on those barking dogs.

 

[ARA]

I'm going to make the point here that there are no do-everything shotguns. There are shotguns that are more versatile than others, certainly, but there are none that do-everything-really-well shotguns. Hunting shotguns don't excel at trap or skeet, and make really poor tactical shotguns. Tactical shotguns make mediocre hunting weapons and suck at trap and skeet. Etc., forever, amen. I feature the KS7 as primarily a no-frills self-defense weapon (home defense, truck gun, backpack gun), secondarily a tactical weapon, and that's all it does well. In contrast, I think that the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 are primarily tactical weapons that do quite well as self-defense weapons. More versatile than the KS7? Yes, I think so. Better? Well, that depends.

 

[ARA]

I'm going to make the point here that there are no do-everything shotguns. There are shotguns that are more versatile than others, certainly, but there are none that are true do-everything-really-well shotguns. Hunting shotguns don't excel at trap or skeet, and make really poor tactical shotguns. Tactical shotguns make mediocre hunting weapons and suck at trap and skeet. Etc., forever, amen. I feature the KS7 as primarily a no-frills self-defense weapon (home defense, truck gun, backpack gun), secondarily a tactical weapon, and that's all it does well. In contrast, I think that the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 are primarily tactical weapons that do quite well as self-defense weapons. More versatile than the KS7? Yes, I think so. Better? Well, that depends.

 

[SafetyfirstONT]

To add, the Ks7 is my shotgun for home defense currently. Until it gives me reason not to trust it, it will be first in line.

 

[Keiichi]

To add, the Ks7 is my shotgun for home defense currently. Until it gives me reason not to trust it, it will be first in line.

I’m almost with you. Finally had an opportunity to shoot a variety of rounds through mine - 14 for 14 at trap with birdshot and no failures for the other 50-ish slugs and buckshot at other targets; I didn’t count them.

Is it trust or faith with a KelTec?

 

[Tony Jay]

Bought my 500 48 years ago & first 870 2 years later. Still have them. Many Ohio deer (pre-straight-wall pistol calibers era) and squirrels fell to both. The 870, with a factory barrel also "reduced to possession" a 34-bar pheasant. With the 21" Rem-Choke barrel it's quick and versatile. Even picked up a muzzleloader barrel for Ohio's special muzzleloader deer season. Adding a Choate magazine extension and side saddle ammo carrier transformed the 870 into a home defense gun. This is the same configuration the local deputies use for their tactical shotguns.
Our club has some very accomplished trap and skeet shooters using 870s who regularly beat the folks with the expensive over-unders.
So the 870 can do it all.
The 500 is easier to carry all day when hunting, but does not allow the extra rounds without an expensive replacement magazine tube and barrel. So the 500 is a bit less versatile, but can do it all in a pinch.
Finally a note on recoil. I have a photograph of me shooting that 500 (18" barrel, very light) with the old Brenneke short-magnum slug load. My front foot is about 12" in the air. My small game load was 1 1/4 oz. of #5 (same pellet count as 1 1/8 oz. of #6) powered by a stiff charge of Unique. Great load! Recoil management (hold tight and ride it out!) was never a problem until recently. After shoulder surgery (detached tendon - you can muscle up and keep the bones strong, but the soft tissues can't be maintained) some folks are recoil-restricted - the surgeon advised against hard-recoiling shoulder guns and no trap shooting as it causes repetitive impact injuries. So recoil can be a major consideration.

 

[SafetyfirstONT]

I’m almost with you. Finally had an opportunity to shoot a variety of rounds through mine - 14 for 14 at trap with birdshot and no failures for the other 50-ish slugs and buckshot at other targets; I didn’t count them.

Is it trust or faith with a KelTec?

Both I guess you could say lol. But for me its like that with alot of things I use. I have trust and faith in my 2014 civic to get me to and from . one time it has let me down. After issue was fixed , I still have confidence in its operation . life is a gamble.

 

[dfariswheel]

You have to choose the right tool for the job.
Using a Marlin Goose Gun with a 36 inch barrel might be usable as a home defense gun but not the best choice.
A KS7 in a serious skeet or trap Match might not be a good choice either.

From what I'm seeing in new guns, the bullpup shotgun is hot, but some are more on the order of open military combat guns that weigh 10 pounds or more.
That might be acceptable if you're fighting through Fallugia, but possibly not the best choice in the bedroom hallway at 3:00 am.

As one man said, you do have to choose the best tool for the purpose, which is why people have a golf bag full of clubs.

 

[Tony Jay]

Great analogy. But, like golf, most shooters have far more "clubs" than they can use effectively. My son, whose college was paid for by a golf scholarship, has shot par with only 4 clubs: 3 wood, 4 iron, 9 iron, and putter. So, while it's nice to have a bunch of clubs, the best shots limit themselves to a half dozen guns or less.
Thus, for the vast majority of us, the 870 with several barrels, a good .22, a modern sporting rifle, and an accurate long-range scoped rifle of at least 6.5mm complete the long-gun list. A high-capacity 9mm (or more powerful) and very concealable back-up complete the arsenal. Everything else is fluff.

 

[ARA]

Great analogy. But, like golf, most shooters have far more "clubs" than they can use effectively. My son, whose college was paid for by a golf scholarship, has shot par with only 4 clubs: 3 wood, 4 iron, 9 iron, and putter. So, while it's nice to have a bunch of clubs, the best shots limit themselves to a half dozen guns or less.
Thus, for the vast majority of us, the 870 with several barrels, a good .22, a modern sporting rifle, and an accurate long-range scoped rifle of at least 6.5mm complete the long-gun list. A high-capacity 9mm (or more powerful) and very concealable back-up complete the arsenal. Everything else is fluff.

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