My 2000± round report

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Dreadnought, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    My 2000± round report

    Just thought I would share my overall range report and ownership data thus far with my P3AT. This is by no means scientific or precise and real facts are supplemented with "best recollections" where necessary.

    •Time Period Covered: February 2007 to January 2008
    •Price paid for weapon: $268 (including tax)
    •Model Description: Blued slide over black frame

    •Total Rounds fired: 2000 (2200 actual total; 2000 fired personally by me)
    •Number of JHP Rounds: 250
    •Number of FMJ Rounds: 1750
    •Brands of JHP fired: Cor-Bon DPX, Winchester USA, Winchester Ranger, Remington Golden Saber, Federal HydraShock, and a few others
    •Brands of FMJ fired: Winchester USA, Remington UMC, Fiocchi, American Eagle (Federal), and several others

    •Number of Failures to Fire(FTFi): 0 (nil)
    •Number of Failures to Eject (FTE): 1 (one)
    •Number of Failures to Feed (FTFe): 63
    •Percentage of FTFes resulting from "limp-wristing": 80%+ (most were early in weapon ownership)
    •Percentage of FTFes resulting from poor ammo: 5%±

    •Number of mechanical failures: 0 (nil)
    •Times firearm was cleaned: 14
    •Cleaning chemical used: BreakFree CLP
    •Lubrication used: BreakFree CLP and Militec-1 Grease
    •Number of parts replaced: 0 (nil)
    •Recurring issues: Inadvertent magazine release during firing (probable cause: user error)

    •Modifications made: Entry level "Fluff & Buff"; added AGlaser Recoil reducing pads and grip sleeve; added Kel-Tec sold pinky magazine extensions to two of three magazines; applied Testor Fluorescent Orange paint to front sight and Green Fluorescent paint to rear sights; sanded down magazine release button

    •Average size groupings for first 1000 rounds (5 shots @ 7 yards): 8"
    •Average size groupings for second 1000 rounds (5 shots @ 7 yards): 4"
    •Best grouping (5 shots @ 7 yards): 2.25"
    •Preferred grip through first 1500 rounds: Two-handed thumbs forward combat grip
    •Preferred grip through last 500 rounds: One-handed

    Despite some concern early on about the weapon's "reliability" stemming from many FTFes (cured by properly gripping the weapon, i.e. eliminating "limp-wristing"), I have come to feel a high level of trust in the weapon.

    I would like to acknowledge three things at this time. One is that my results are not to be taken as typical. I understand from reading posts hereon and from personal email conversations I have had with others that my unit may be closer to an "exception" than a "rule" and that many have had numerous "go back to K-T" level problems with their weapons (often multiple times to no eventual resolution). I sympathize with them and truly wish they had not had those bad experiences. However, my experience has been great. It has been educational, at times troubling and mostly enjoyable.

    Secondly, I would like to state for the record that the P3AT and in particular the .380ACP round, is my personal threshold for a personal defense weapon. No offense to those who feel well armed with a .32 or even a .25, this is just my personal feelings based on the data I have accumulated (experienced and read). The .38SPL round, especially in +P is a superior man-stopping round, IMO. However, a loaded, broken-in, well-lubed P3AT loaded with Cor-Bon DPX rounds is in my opinion, nearly a match in some categories and actually exceed the .38SPL in others (most notably expansion).

    And lastly, even a broken-in, well-lubed P3AT is not as mechanically reliable as a revolver. I rate my primary three concealed carry firearms this way:

    •GLOCK 30 = 95% reliable
    •S&W 642 = 95% reliable
    •Kel-Tec P3AT = 90% reliable

    In summary, I am very pleased with the Kel-Tec P3AT with nearly a year of ownership and 2000+ rounds fired. I would not hesitate to recommend them to a friend and I would consider buying a second (additional) unit.

    Happy shooting folks and I wish you all success and accuracy with your weapons. Here's to another 2000 rounds!
  2. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Very nice report.  :cool:  You keep meticulous records.  
    Regarding this...

    Realize that every time a gun leaves Kel-tec, it has been test fired and found to be in working order.  I suspect that the vast majority (not all) guns that have bent sent back multiple times suffer from some type of user error.  It is just not that hard to fix one of these that is truly "broken".  As you discovered yourself early in the process, these guns simply can not be limp-wristed.  I'd be willing to bet that upon arrival, a high percentage of pistols returned to Kel-tec function just fine in the hands of an experienced shooter.  Thus, they polish the feed ramp, change a part or two and return it.  Perhaps the service department should ship them with a DVD on limp-wristing and proper care and feeding of an ultralight pistol.  :-/

  3. c0wboi38

    c0wboi38 New Member

    Sep 19, 2006
    Re: My 2000± round report

    GREAT IDEA!!!!!! :) PM this to KWTM?

    TX, I think you have a winner....
  4. erikswindlehurst

    erikswindlehurst Banned

    Jan 5, 2008
    Re: My 2000± round report

    I don't know about you, but at that high round count, I'd be asking KT for some springs (hammer, trigger return, assembly, recoil), extractors and mag catches. Best part is they're free!
  5. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Very nice report! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

  6. snaredog

    snaredog New Member

    Jan 30, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Very nice report.
  7. Srigs

    Srigs New Member

    Mar 10, 2005
    Re: My 2000± round report

    What a great and one of the most complete handgun report. Thanks :)
  8. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Thank you!
  9. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    I appreciate you saying so. :)
  10. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Very nice of you to say. Thanks. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
  11. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Re: My 2000± round report

    DN - nice post.  I dream about keeping stats like that.  And it all goes through the cracks once I start firing.  I generally don't even know how many rounds I have shot in the last 2 hours unless I happened to count the boxes I took before going out or the ones piled on the floor!

    While, yes, KT will probably ship out some springs and stuff for free, they don't HAVE to and to assume they will is, IMNSHO, the wrong attitude to have.  If something has broken or there is a manufacturing defect that is one thing but "worn out" is generally something that _I_ believe we should have the attitude that we should be buying - then when KT does give them for free it is a big plus.  

    Not that I think Erik had something else in mind, I just don't want future readers to get the idea that KT somehow has the obligation to continue doing what they always have.  They probably will, but don't have to.  

  12. lagerbrewer

    lagerbrewer New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Thanks for the time you put in to reporting!
  13. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Thanks. I tend to be obsessive. Plus, the best way to know where you are is to know where you started. And as I said at the outset of the report, it's "mostly" factual, with "recollection" filling in any gaps. :)

    I second your emotion here. If it ain't broke, Kel-Tec should not be "expected" to fix it. As obsessive as I am I will probably order some replacement springs from K-T and pay for them since, "One is None and Two is One". ;)

    Carry on.
  14. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    You bet! No problem. For long posts like that I type them in WordPerfect (yes, WP, not Word) and then when I'm finished I just copy to the Windows clipboard, start the post and paste the clipboard contents in. It allows me to type some, do something else, come back and type some more, etc.

    Still time consuming, but it makes it a little easier. :)
  15. erikswindlehurst

    erikswindlehurst Banned

    Jan 5, 2008
    Re: My 2000± round report

    I just received some recoil spring and guide rod sets along with some mag catches. I offered to pay but they declined my offer. Seriously, I have enough spare parts that they've sent me over the years that I could put a couple of complete P3ATs together if I had some extra frames/barrels/slides. Got multiples of everything else!
  16. spence13e

    spence13e Well-Known Member

    May 11, 2006
    Re: My 2000± round report

    DN - that is an amazing report. i couldn't tell you how many rounds i've fired thru my P3 since i got it in nov 07, probably somewhere between 300 to 400. lost count very quickly, and have the same issues that scott has with every gun i own! oh well.
  17. Chuck-Baby

    Chuck-Baby New Member

    Jan 28, 2008
    Re: My 2000± round report

    WHOW!!!!! Not may of us keep such detailed records of our shooting. It is good to find someone who does to help the rest of us out. I do agree that paying for worn out springs is a small price to pay to keep such a fine shooting little puppy in top notch shape. Thanks again for such a detailed report.
  18. riverkeeper

    riverkeeper New Member

    Aug 30, 2006
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Great report.
    What is your group size one handed?
    Front Sight Press?
  19. Alex

    Alex New Member

    Jun 14, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report

    Great report. I can't compete with your thoroughness but have similar # of round through mine. I have 2150 total with 50 jhp's and the rest fmj. I sent mine back to KT 1 time when plastic frame developed cracks. Never had a problem before or since. I did fluff and buff when new (2005). Great little gun. Never had a fte or ftf problem. I'm now working up the round count on my 3 month old PF9 and having a ball. I also agree with your reliability rating. I have a Glock 27 instead of the 30 but also have the 642 and a Ruger .357 revolver. That being said, One of the Keltecs is always in my pocket.
  20. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    Jul 23, 2007
    Re: My 2000± round report


    Having only recently switched to one-handed, I began as though I starting fresh with a new weapon and I am currently only shooting @ 4 yards. Currently I am averaging 3 to 4 inch groups @ 4 yards shooting right-handed (note that there is very little difference in my left-handed and right-handed sets as I am ambidextrous). One more consistent range session and I will probably starting pushing out to 7 yards for all of my one-handed shooting. Curiously, my first shot when shooting two-handed is always better than my first shot shooting one-handed. However, the following shots are equally accurate regardless of them being shot one- or two-handed.

    I shoot all of my FSP practice @ 4 yards. I will occasionally squeeze off a magazine @ 7 yards, but not very often. I figure anytime I will be utilizing the FSP method I will most likely be in a "close & quick" scenario. I average 5"± groups @ 4 yards utilizing FSP (FSP or Front Site Press, for those interested, is when you shoot using only the front site as your acquisition directive; that is, you do not "line up" your rear and front sites before shooting, you simply place the front site over the intended point of impact). I try to shoot my sets at a rate of at most one round every two seconds.

    What kind of groups are you printing, riverkeeper?