[adamsesq]

Got tired of reading about GW so I decided to go really do a mirror polish on the barrels of the twins. The third (Baby Brother) has since been gifted to another family member so we are down to just two P3ATs. Also wanted to do a polish on the feedramp of Sub9 but after looking at how much I will have to tear that baby apart, never mind.

At first I just did twin 1 - mine. 400grit, 600grit and then jewlers rouge on the dremel and the barrel was looking mirror beautiful. In addition to the feed ramp I did the inside of the barrel up until where the rifiling starts. Also did the parts of the barrel that show when installed in the slide. Finally I polished the guide rod to glass smooth. My formerly black guide rod now looks like the "stainless" one that someone said they recently had returned from KT.

Then wifey was not at all amused that twin 1 looked better than twin 2 so I started all over again with twin 2. I also took the opportunity to install one of JFBs washers in twin 2 just in case. Twin 1 has had the same washer in for about 300 rounds now with no failures that I can relate to the washer.

Then I went out to the home range (a couple of sandbags in the barn). Twin 2 ran 24 rounds perfect. Brought it in, cleaned the barrel and feed ramp with CLP on a q-tip and handed it back to wifey.

Twin 1 had two FTEs so I focussed on it a bit more. I was getting lazy and shooting one handed straight at the ground. Unlike twin 2 that I can't make fail, twin 1 is succeptible to limp wristing. 4 more magazines being careful to have a very stiff one handed grip and no failures. In, clean and back in the smartcarry under my shorts and tshirt.

Is there any adjustments or anything that can be made to twin 1 to make it less succeptible to limp wristing?

And just for info, both twin 1 and twin 2 are leaving pretty good smileys on the bullet faces but that is to be expected I guess and you'd never know it if you didn't recover your bullets (short of firing and then pulling the next round back out of the chamber).

-Scott

 

[JFB]

...Is there any adjustments or anything that can be made to twin 1 to make it less succeptible to limp wristing?

And just for info, both twin 1 and twin 2 are leaving pretty good smileys on the bullet faces ...

Note sure if this helped or not... but any time I can make something more repeatable, I think will help in performance

When the slide is held back in full recoil, I didn't like the amount the barrel could move up and down. Also, with the magazine in just the frame, I didn't like how much it could move back and forth. My fix took care of both at the same time.

At WallMart's hobby area, I found 2mm one side sticky foam rubber. The first strip was put in the frame just ahead of the magazine well (where it would be under the barrel lug). A second longer strip put on the first and then down the magazine well.

The foam holds the magazine tight against the back of the well and prevents the dinging to the front of the magazine that was a concern about a year back,

The foam also stops the barrel from going so far down. It actually makes the barrel contact the inside of the slide.

Since I have added the foam, I have only shot a couple hundred rounds, but it is holding up well (and the magazine well is not as sootty)

 

[Wilson]

Is there any adjustments or anything that can be made to twin 1 to make it less succeptible to limp wristing?

You might consider a “minor” barrel-hood modification. I found that when I limpwristed some of my P-3ATs, it was just enough to permits the shell casing to hit the barrel hood. So on my P-3ATs that required two-handed shooting I remove some of that edge on the barrel hood. Now all my P-3ATs can be shot with one hand, which is more likely in a real world situation.

Wilson – who’s also saying less is better when removing metal

 

[adamsesq]

You might consider a “minor” barrel-hood modification. I found that when I limpwristed some of my P-3ATs, it was just enough to permits the shell casing to hit the barrel hood. So on my P-3ATs that required two-handed shooting I remove some of that edge on the barrel hood. Now all my P-3ATs can be shot with one hand, which is more likely in a real world situation.

Wilson – who’s also saying less is better when removing metal

Got some pics? When it didnt eject it really didn't eject. The shell casing was still 1/2 in the barrel and the next round was wedging up against it pretty tight.

And I don't know if pointing straight down is harder to eject from since it has to lift the casing against gravity rather than throw it out to the right but they normally go straight up anyway so I don't think that had anything to do with it. Like I said, I could repeat problem by purposefully lw'ing or I could make problem go away by purposefully holding tight.

-Scott

 

[JerryO]

Is there any adjustments or anything that can be made to twin 1 to make it less succeptible to limp wristing?

I'm not sure about limp wristing, but there are a couple of things that reduce FTE's.

FTE's seem to be caused by the extractor slipping off the rim of the fired case.

The most popular thing is to polish the barrel so the case slides out easily. Not only the chamber but also the bottom of the hood just behind the chamber. Even removeing a little metal to prevent the case being forced down hard against the round in the magazine.

I have a thing about the extractor needing to grip the case rim firmly. Many guns (not just KT's have extractors that are not tight on the case extractor groove. I have fixed several FTE's by grinding and fileing the back side of the extractor which lets (makes?) the extractor move in a little further.. However, if the extractor moves in to far (and hard), the rim of the next round will catch on the now tight extractor and not feed up into the slide (a FTF). I had FTE's on my first 2nd generation, until I removed the ejector from the slide and looked at the parts very carefully. I found that the ejector was pivoting under its middle, just about where the spring ends. If the ejector was seated against the back and middle portions of its slot in the slide, the case rims would fall free. A little metal off the back side (middle) of the extractor, and it touched the bottom of the case rim.

Anyway, I have had 100 percent with ejections since.

JerryO

 

[JFB]

..The shell casing was still 1/2 in the barrel and the next round was wedging up against it pretty tight.

Had the slide gone far enough back to be pushing on the back of the next round?  If so, was the rim of the spent round stoped by the mouth of the next round? I don't think that is a true limp wristing.

That is what I was having.  

I would think both the opening of the upper chamber hood mod and my holding the barrel high against the slide have the same results.

 

[Wilson]

Got some pics?

The barrel in the center is stock with the barrel hoods on either side having been modified. The angle of the camera and with the barrels snuggled into the velvet makes the modification seem more sever than if they were on a hard surface. This was accomplished with a semi-circle pick file and sandpaper. I would never consider doing this with a Dremel or power tool from fear of over doing it. I took off a small amount then tested several timed rather than taking all the metal off at once. The smallest amount of metal that can be removed the better.

Wilson – who’s crediting this SG modification from studying Flyers posted mod of a FG P-3AT

 

[adamsesq]

The barrel in the center is stock with the barrel hoods on either side having been modified. The angle of the camera and with the barrels snuggled into the velvet makes the modification seem more sever than if they were on a hard surface.  This was accomplished with a semi-circle pick file and sandpaper. I would never consider doing this with a Dremel or power tool from fear of over doing it. I took off a small amount then tested several timed rather than taking all the metal off at once. The smallest amount of metal that can be removed the better.

Wilson – who’s crediting this SG modification from studying Flyers posted mod of a FG P-3AT

Thats pretty awesome, THANKS! Is it just shortened (flat file along the edge), or shortened AND rounded down in the center. A bit hard to tell. It looks like maybe 1/16" or more but I know what you said about illusions. Any idea how much was taken off? And how would you suggest "Testing". I mean how loose of a grip should I try to get to?

-Scott

 

[adamsesq]

Had the slide gone far enough back to be pushing on the back of the next round?  If so, was the rim of the spent round stoped by the mouth of the next round?  I don't think that is a true limp wristing.

That is what I was having.  

I would think both the opening of the upper chamber hood mod and my holding the barrel high against the slide have the same results.

Having a hard time picturing what you are describing in order to answer. The empty casing was about 1/2 out the chamber, maybe a little more and just barely starting to turn (the primer side) towards the ejection port (which is what makes me say a little more than 1/2 out but it sure didn't seem like that much. And again, ONLY if I had a really loose grip.

Yes, the nose (bullet) of the next round was being forced up into the brass left from the previous round. Hitting it somewhere in the forward 1/2 to 1/3 of the empty casing. The nose of the next bullet was NOT hitting the primer side of the previous casing.

-Scott

 

[Packer]

Almost ANY malfunction can be caused by limp wristing. Basically what happens is that the energy needed to get the slide all the way back is absorbed. So the slide only goes partially back.

Even a case found completely inside the chamber can be LW caused--because the case got pushed back inside.

The FLYER BARREL HOOD mod is designed to ease the problem by TAPERING the top of the chamber. This prevents the reare of the case from hitting the front of the next case, and knocking it off of the extractor. Think of it as allowing the rear of the extracting case to tilt more upwards.

Packer.

 

[Packer]

Here's some advice from a consumate MASTER of these little guns:

http://www.gunsmith.fuselier.com/function.html

Packer.

 

[Wilson]

Is it just shortened (flat file along the edge), or shortened AND rounded down in the center. A bit hard to tell. It looks like maybe 1/16" or more but I know what you said about illusions. Any idea how much was taken off? And how would you suggest "Testing". I mean how loose of a grip should I try to get to?

No, “do not” file the back or sides of the barrel hood, as that would prevent proper lockup. I have only rounded the inner lip of the top of the barrel hood to provide a smidgen more room for the extracted casing to the thrown out. The rounded lip is deceiving, as I’m sure I didn’t remove as much metal as you believe. It should be done slow and even a little at the time. Use the right shaped file and sand it smooth about half way through the job. Test fire it to see if there is any improvement. If there is no improvement you likely have a different problem, so there’s no need to do more. You indicated one P-3AT fires without a hiccup, fire this P-3AT the same way to see if the problem is fixed.

I have also removed metal from the inside of an extractor like JerryO mentioned, as I had one early slide that didn’t permit the extractor to reach far enough in to properly grab the rim. If this is the problem, it can usually be noticed by comparing two slides side by side, to see if the extractors both go in the same distance.

It might also be beneficial to read the Flyer Barrel Hood Mod but keep in mind the big differences between the two barrels.

Wilson – who’s assuming that chamber is polished to a mirror finish or adamsesq wouldn’t be trying this