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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems that there is some confusion about weather or not Mag Safe brand ammo would be safe for use in the p-3at. On their website they claim that it is now safe for all but the Davis or Grendal p-10 but there is no mention of the Kel-Tec p-3at. After reviewing data I do not see any advantages in carrying this ammo for defensive purposes in ANY 380acp. They seem to boast about fragmenting and velocity ratings in excess of 1700 f.p.s. The problem I have with that is that the bullet weight is a mere 52 grains! I personally have an issue with that! Common logic would dictate that in order to have proper "knockdown" or "stopping" power you would have to incorporate a heavier projectile than that! On the other hand you can't ignore the sheer velocity that these rounds produce in cojunction with the fragmenting action they incorporate, with all that said, I tend to take the side of the larger weight bullet and lower velocity of more common "self defence" rounds ie; Speer Gold Dot, Federal critical defence and so on. Theres also the question of the barrel thickness of the p-3at, in that case I believe that the gun can handle these "rifle velocity" bullets but find that they are no more useful than standard personal defense rounds. Personal defence is no subject to be taken "lightly" (no pun intended) I just prefer a bit more substance in my carry round's. Please feel free to "weigh-in" on this highly controversial subject.
 

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dozer, if you wanna call someone out, do so. don't fly by the "there seems to be some confusion".

FYI, the last lot of magsafe I purchased still is stamped "DO NOT USE IN KEL-TEC P3AT".

use what you want. purchase what you want.

it's your money and your life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
virtual-rjhauser said:
dozer, if you wanna call someone out, do so.  don't fly by the "there seems to be some confusion".

FYI, the last lot of magsafe I purchased still is stamped "DO NOT USE IN KEL-TEC P3AT".

use what you want.  purchase what you want.

it's your money and your life.
What is meant by "if you wanna call someone out"? Did I miss something? Is this a sensitive subject for you? Are you a company rep for Mag Safe? I did not mean to offend you or anyone else, if I did I do appoligize. As far as the confusion goes, there are a lot of people in my gun club that ask me about this particular ammunition not only for .380's but for many other caliburs/handguns as well and all I can go by is the written ballistics I also replied to a question on the p-11 forum today. Personally I don't own any of this Mag-Safe ammunition but as a range officer at my gun club I see it on the benches from time to time and have seen first hand the inaccuracy these cartridges produce due to their extreme velocities (at least in .40 cal & 9mm.) Again, if I offended you in any way, you have my sincere appoligies.
 

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Dozer just some advice on this ammo based on what you have written; I would leave it alone. I personally have never shot any of it but based on the "normal" .380 @900-1000 fps and the pressures it's making at that velocity compared to 1700 fps and the pressures that will produce I would bet that somewhere in the first few rounds your P3AT is going to go poop, and that could cause some injury to you besides your loved P3 being in pieces on the floor. If you are looking for some good +P rounds try Buffalo Bore but I would not recommend a steady diet of those either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Klutch said:
Dozer just some advice on this ammo based on what you have written; I would leave it alone. I personally have never shot any of it but based on the "normal" .380 @900-1000 fps and the pressures it's making at that velocity compared to 1700 fps and the pressures that will produce I would bet that somewhere in the first few rounds your P3AT is going to go poop, and that could cause some injury to you besides your loved P3 being in pieces on the floor. If you are looking for some good +P rounds try Buffalo Bore but I would not recommend a steady diet of those either.
Klutch; I agree 100%! I am by no means a magnum crazed indiviual, which is why I stated that I use Speer Gold Dot &
Hornady Critical Defense for my carry rounds. I also handload .380's for shooting purposes. For me this little gun is a great carry weapon, as far as range "shooting" goes I use my Colt's, Kimbers, Sig's, and Glocks. These little Kel-Tec's are not great shooter's, their intended purpose is concealed carry use.
 

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Dozer said:
[quote author=Klutch link=1266187375/0#3 date=1266196326]Dozer just some advice on this ammo based on what you have written; I would leave it alone. I personally have never shot any of it but based on the "normal" .380 @900-1000 fps and the pressures it's making at that velocity compared to 1700 fps and the pressures that will produce I would bet that somewhere in the first few rounds your P3AT is going to go poop, and that could cause some injury to you besides your loved P3 being in pieces on the floor. If you are looking for some good +P rounds try Buffalo Bore but I would not recommend a steady diet of those either.
Klutch; I agree 100%! I am by no means a magnum crazed indiviual, which is why I stated that I use Speer Gold Dot &
Hornady Critical Defense for my carry rounds. I also handload .380's for shooting purposes. For me this little gun is a great carry weapon, as far as range "shooting" goes I use my Colt's, Kimbers, Sig's, and Glocks. These little Kel-Tec's are not great shooter's, their intended purpose is concealed carry use.  [/quote]
Well if you were magnum crazed I doubt you would have a .380 for that. But I have to disagree for personal preference, I enjoy shooting them. I know the do kick quite a bit but you got to admit when you let off the P3AT you smile every time we can call it the mini-magnum.
 

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There is a picture somewhere of a ruger LCP that BLEW UP supposedly after firing a round of magsafe. It destroyed the barrel, splitting it into two completely seperate pieces, and also destroyed the grip and the crimson trace sight too. I have the picture, but I dont have it uploaded anywhere. If noone else can link to or post it I'll upload it tomorrow.
 

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No gimmick bullets for me but I may not be as smart as some people. Just a superstitious old fart who likes real bullets only.

I'd like to see the LCP picture, I only know of the P3AT pics.

My gunsmith called MagSafe and was told OH YEAH. WE'VE BLOWN UP TWO OF THOSE PISTOLS WITH OUR AMMO. WE NOW HAVE A STICKER ON THE PACKAGE THAT SAYS DO NOT USE WITH KEL-TEC P3AT.
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/MagSafe.htm

 

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hey klutch, what do you carry in your p3at?
 

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james__12345 said:
There is a picture somewhere of a ruger LCP that BLEW UP supposedly after firing a round of magsafe.  It destroyed the barrel, splitting it into two completely seperate pieces, and also destroyed the grip and the crimson trace sight too.  I have the picture, but I dont have it uploaded anywhere.  If noone else can link to or post it I'll upload it tomorrow.
I was under the impression that when a barrel blows up it's usually caused by an obstruction in the barrel like a bullet from a squibb round getting hit by the next round fired.

Am I wrong?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No you are not. Most ruptures are caused by an obstruction of sorts,usually a stuck bulletlike you said, however some ruptures have been caused by the powder charge burning too fast for the travel of the bullet, in this case the bullet itself can act like an obstruction and the charge will find another path (usually the thinnest part of the barrel) this is especially true in the case of some of these small pocket guns as some of them have a thin or weak part in the barrel (the p3at has a very thin point in its barrel) you can clearly see that when you field strip it. SAAMI pressure regulations exist for a very good reason, some people don't take them seriously though resulting in usually catastrophic ruptures of either the cartridge case itself or the barrel and sometimes the slide or other components, most of the time this type of incident is caused by human error (handloads that exceed maximum pressures) but there is the very rare incidence of factory loads being overcharged sometimes even doublecharged! Almost non-existant with american branded ammo though due to much higher safety/quality control regulations than in some of the foriegn ammo manufacturers.
 

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I would stick with traditional ammo.  As many will concur, there is no magic bullet.


virtual-rjhauser said:
dozer, if you wanna call someone out, do so. don't fly by the "there seems to be some confusion".

FYI, the last lot of magsafe I purchased still is stamped "DO NOT USE IN KEL-TEC P3AT".

use what you want. purchase what you want.

it's your money and your life.
Whoa, take a chill pill. :eek:
 

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virtual-rjhauser said:
hey klutch, what do you carry in your p3at?
I do not own a P3AT yet I'm looking into buying one in the next couple of weeks. But when I had my LCP I had either Speer GDHP or COR-BON.
 

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You were right, those aren't the pics I was talking about. This is the one I saved. I think there may have been another one, but this is the only one i saved.
 

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I live in Orlando and purchased both my P-3AT and SU-16C from Shoot Straight...about 3 years ago. Shoot Straight (Apopka) is the nicest gun store in the Orlando area...in fact, it is the nicest gun store I have ever seen. Puts gander Mountain and Bass Pro Shops to shame! Basically they sell only guns with a small amount of archery equipment. Indoor pistol and rifle range.

They have large tactical department carries just about every AR made and other guns including Barrett 50's, etc.

The large Apopka store is where their warehouse and corporate office is located. An interesting fact is that the owner of Shoot Straight ALSO ownes MagSafe. The MagSafe ammo in made at his Casselberry location about 10 miles due East of the Apopka store.

When I purchased my P-3AT I asked him about using his MagSafe in the little KelTec. He told me to follow Kel-Tec's warning NOT TO USE IT.

I see the owner every time I'm there (about once a week) and will ask him if he has a 380 MagSafe round that is now safe to use in the P-3AT.
 

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Hi,

Apparently 380 isn't the only caliber Magsafe has a problem with.  This quote is from a article on testing the CZ-52 in 7.62 Tokarev: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_159_26/ai_90099729/pg_3/

Switching to the MagSafes only increased the crescendo. But there was a reason -- they averaged a blistering 2,234 fps. One actually clocked 2,299 fps, which is chasing 7.62x39 territory. This was a little too much of a good thing though and the pressure was high enough to blow the primer out and rupture the case around the neck.
The MagSafe pressure sounds pretty high to me if the case neck is letting go and the primer is rupturing.  I'm going to trest this stuff as unsafe in any gun after reading this.

Best Regards:
 
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