M1 30 carbine fan

Discussion in 'Other Guns' started by phideaux, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. phideaux

    phideaux Fido for short Supporter

    Feb 8, 2011
    West Ky
    Some of you, like me, probably have never appereciated this little powerhouse, carbine.

    I have eyeballed them for a while, now I really appreciate just how awesome, simple, and solid it is .

    After full disassembly/assembly , it is awesome,. The bolt and slide mechanics are genius, the gas block/valve assembly is fantastic, the trigger is really good(but will get some tuning), even the rear peep site is nice.
    Not one piece of plastic or alloy anywhere , all steel.
    The stock is excellent , solid walnut. Uses a 15 rnd and a 30 rnd mag, of which I have one each (now).

    Feels like 2 lbs, but actually weighs 4.5 - 4.75 lbs.
    This could end of being my grab/go to shtf partner.
    It really does cover the whole spectrum of what is need for a dependable shtf gun.

    Got some food coming for her, cant wait to get a day I can get a range report together.

    I present to you my newest addition.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Jim
     
    jimboksg likes this.
  2. PF9Newbie

    PF9Newbie New Member

    Nov 22, 2008
    Wisconsin
    Carbines are fun, without a doubt. The .30 carbine cartridge is, unfortunately, pretty underpowered but there are some modern rounds for it now that definitely improve the terminal ballistics picture and make the .30 carbine an acceptable defensive round. I have owned and shot a Carbine for years (though I do not use it as a defensive weapon-that is a role for my AR-15s) but a great shooter nonetheless. The one I have now is set up with a long eye relief scope, using a replacement handguard with rail and quick detach rings for the 4X scope. Very accurate at 50 yds, and consistly hits the metal at 100.

    Jim R
     

  3. Supervisor42

    Supervisor42 Banned

    Jan 12, 2013
    Arab, Alabama
    Could you share some of that?
     
  4. WPhilB47

    WPhilB47 Well-Known Member

    Jul 19, 2013
    RGV, Texas
    That old story about the 30 carbine being underpowered is just that, a story, and not based on facts. The rumor about it being underpowered has limited truth. It failed as a military cartridge against the Commies in North Korea due to it's light bullet not being able to penetrate heavy winter combat gear/clothing at long combat distances. It is perfectly capable of causing serious damage at close range or against lightly protected targets. Nobody thinks you are undergunned with a 357 magnum, but the 30 carbine in standard loading produces almost twice the energy of a standard load 357 magnum. Mind you, both can be loaded in many different configurations, but the standard loads were what I compared. 30 Carbine, 110 gr bullet, 1987 fps, and 964 fp muzzle energy. 357 magnum, 158 gr bullet, 1240 fps, and 539 fp energy at the muzzle.
     
  5. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    So, where are you getting your data? From Supervisor? Try 1735 ft/sec and 1056 ft/lbs for a .357.
    http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

    The .30 carbine is basically a pistol round out of a long gun. Shoot just about any pistol round out of a 16" pipe and you get better performance. 'specially if you then compare them to pistol rounds out of pistols.

    oh, btw, Sweet looking piece Jim. :)

    lop

    w
     
  6. Supervisor42

    Supervisor42 Banned

    Jan 12, 2013
    Arab, Alabama
    O M G !!! Almost TWICE!
    What other personal defense rounds is this 'underpowered' cartridge from a carbine more powerful than?

    .45 ACP (the 1911 man-stopper) - yeah, way more energy than that.
    .40 S&W (it's more powerful, than a 45:eek:) - still more than twice the energy.
    9mm (not even close:rolleyes:)

    Take those away and you're left with the 44 magnum.

    Shirley this underpowered round isn't more powerful that a 44 magnum fired from Dirty Harry's 'most powerful handgun in the world'?
    I'm sorry, but it is: 897 to 960 ftlbs, OOPS!

    Compared to rifles that stay locked in your gun safe, yeah it's underpowered:rolleyes:.

    Leaning against the wall in the corner of the livingroom, with 30 rounds in the mag, it is the worst nightmare for anything that is bad.
     
    huffy49 likes this.
  7. PF9Newbie

    PF9Newbie New Member

    Nov 22, 2008
    Wisconsin
  8. Supervisor42

    Supervisor42 Banned

    Jan 12, 2013
    Arab, Alabama
    I'm gonna hafta get me some of them!:)
    OK. Everybody that has a .357 magnum with a barrel 10" or longer, wave it high in the air.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Here's Lop:
     

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2014
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  9. guru2sum

    guru2sum Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2005
    Mad City, Wisconsin
    That would be the front one, a little over 16".

    [​IMG]
     
    TJB63 likes this.
  10. haertig

    haertig Well-Known Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Colorado
    Just because one cartridge is more powerful than another does not mean it's better. In some circumstances, yes, in other circumstances no. Once you get to the threshold that gets the job done, it really doesn't matter if you go beyond that threshold. You gain nothing.
     
  11. Supervisor42

    Supervisor42 Banned

    Jan 12, 2013
    Arab, Alabama
    If the mags are new, the inside edge of the lips need some attention with 400 sandpaper to break the sharp edge that will carve grooves in the rounds being stripped.
    Just remember that none of these rifles feed perfect with a full 30 mag.
    Download a few rounds until it gets broken in.:)
    If it still shoots low, you can file the front site so it's in line with how you shoot.
    Look what I found...
    25 yard proof target.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  12. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Ok, I've nothing against the .30 carbine. Cool gun. But why do people take a cartridge that can be shot thru pistol or long gun and when comparing it to other rounds that can be shot thru pistol or long guns, they compare the performance of the .30 thru the long gun to that of the other round thru a short pipe?
    The fact is that the .30 carbine is a mid power pistol level round. Thru long pipes or short it is plenty to get the job done, just like lots of other rounds.
     
  13. hank1231

    hank1231 Active Member

    101
    Mar 20, 2008
    Athens, PA
    If I remember correctly, at 300 yards the bullet from the 30 Carbine still has the energy of a 380 acp at point blank. Sure, that's not impressive compared to 5.56 NATO or 7.62x39, but it will still do the job of stopping a threat, and if it doesn't you still have 300 yards to poke more holes in the threat. The 30 Carbine bridges the gap between handguns and intermediate rifles nicely. And they are just fun to shoot!
     
    huffy49 likes this.
  14. JAB

    JAB Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2010
    East Tennessee
    I wanted an M1 style carbine for years. When my maternal grandfather passed, I inherited one of his. Felt recoil is practically zero, it is accurate as all get out and it makes a .30 caliber hole. The only thing I don't love about it is the price of ammo.

    As for 'wouldn't penetrate heavy North Korean clothing', I take that with a grain of salt. The reason is that I asked someone who was there about it. My maternal step-grandfather was in both WWII and Korea. In WWII, he was in field artillery crews that served weapons such as howitzers, etc. The M1 is one of the weapons such crews were issued as PDWs. In Korea, he served in infantry in the parts of the country that were so cold that he said the bolts in their rifles would freeze shut. He said they would have to place the butt of their rifles on the ground and stomp the bolt with their foot to get it open. He didn't carry an M1 but said that he did occasionally see .30 carbines used there, as well. I told him that I had heard the .30 carbine wouldn't penetrate the heavy clothing worn by the North Koreans or so on. He gave me a dubious look and said, "I have never heard that and don't believe it. I never saw anyone shot with an M1 who didn't go down."

    I also asked my maternal grandfather - from whom I eventually inherited mine - about the .30 carbine being underpowered, specifically for hunting deer. His reply was that he had killed more deer with a .30 carbine than any, other rifle (and he killed a lot of deer over the years.) He went on to say that he had never lost a deer that he shot with one of them. Now, keep in mind that he lived on Lookout Mountain (not the wealthy part) in Georgia so he wasn't taking Montana-level 1000 yard shots or anything. Of course, living in East Tennessee, there are few places where I would be presented with such a shot, either. Heck, in the woods around here 100 yards would be an atypically long shot, IMO.

    I think the real 'failing' of the M1 and the M2 (the auto version for which, to my understanding, the 30 round mags were originally made) was that the powers that be eventually tried to force a likely excellent PDW into the role of battle rifle.

    No offense to anyone (seriously - I really mean no offense) but it always seems kind of funny to me when folks who think a hopped-up .22 (aka 'poodle shooter') like the .223 is the ne plus ultra of SHTF rifle cartridges talk about the .30 caliber M1 as if it were a pellet gun. Don't get me wrong - I realize that .22 bullet is moving at a really high rate of speed and am sure a .223 would handle most SHTF duties but I also think that discounting the .30 carbine as 'underpowered' is a mistake. Of course, I also believe that a bolt action .22 Magnum - backed up with a good revolver in something like .357 or .44 - would handle most of the SHTF duties that I would be likely to call on it to perform (not that I would necessarily plan to choose a .22 Magnum over other options.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
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  15. JAB

    JAB Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2010
    East Tennessee
    You mean you don't believe you can kill something more deader than dead?
     
  16. PF9Newbie

    PF9Newbie New Member

    Nov 22, 2008
    Wisconsin
    From what I have read and understand, it wasn't really the "powers that be" that tried to make the Carbine a battle rifle, but more the GIs themselves. It was (is) after all many pounds lighter than the Garand, smaller, easier to carry, and the ammo is much lighter so more can be carried. So, naturally, many GIs preferred the Carbine and demanded more of them.

    As for those of us who have to some extent characterized the Carbine as "a bit underpowered", that really refers only to the Carbine as compared to other rifle rounds in common use, and also mainly when using the standard 110 grain FMJ GI round. With softpoint ammo, or newer ammo such as the Hornady Critical Defense, the carbine round is a fine self defense round, even out to 100 yards or more. Although I do not use my Carbine in that role, if it were needed, with current defensive ammo I personally would not feel "undergunned" with the carbine at any reasonable distance. Just my viewpoint.

    Jim R
     
  17. phideaux

    phideaux Fido for short Supporter

    Feb 8, 2011
    West Ky
    Good conversation here,

    While I read, study, respect, admire all ballistic charts and ,use them as a guide when working up loads, I also like physical results.

    I have always thought .357 mag is one of the best all around rounds I have in my inventory. Mine and my grandsons favorite .
    I have more than a few .357s, long and short barrels.

    I read , that in 30 cal rifles, that 16" barrel is optimum point for powder burn and muzzle fps, Optimum .

    That being said, I intend to take my Rossi .357 mag Lever action , 20" barrel, and my Newly aquired 30 carbine ,18" barrel, to the range. Since "powerful or not" is the topic, I will not be considering accuracy.

    I want to see what physical damage each can impart on objects , gal water(multiples), fresh 2x4s, etc etc.
    I will use 158 gr fmj, vs 110 grain fmj, then some soft point.
    The heavyer .357 should show a little more damage, but the 30 carb has more fps. (you should see what a 22-250 @ 4000fps, does to a bowling pin as opposed a 45 cal at 1400fps @ 50 yrds)

    Thats about as close as I can get.

    Just my opinion , cause I dont know yet, I dont think there is gonna be very much difference. We shall see.

    Im a happy owner of both , so its just for FUN .:D

    Jim
     
  18. GeorgiaRebel

    GeorgiaRebel Active Member

    181
    Dec 1, 2012
    Northwest Georgia
    Growing up in the mountains of Tennessee, my job was to keep the packs of wild dogs away from our place. I dispatched many a dog with my Dad's M1 Carbine (now mine since he passed). Some of those dogs were about 100 yards away - I never wanted to let them get too close ;) I never had a problem taking them down except when I could not get a good head or chest shot. I used standard 110 gr soft points that we bought at the local sporting goods store.

    My wife gave me a Henry Big Boy in 357 a couple of years ago and I now use it instead of the M1, but I would not hesitate to use the M1 for anything bad that normally comes on our place (except for a bear).
     
  19. haertig

    haertig Well-Known Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Colorado
    I were called upon to defend my home, I doubt I'd care if I ended up with an AR, AK, .30 carbine, .45colt lever gun, a shotgun, or one of many other firearms. IMHO, they would ALL do the job admirably in trained hands. I don't need to study muzzle energies and review ballistic charts to come to that conclusion, I base it solely on my intuition that they would all cross the "adequate to do the job" threshold. Likewise for handguns, I wouldn't be worried if I picked up the .357 when I meant to grab the .40 or the .45 or the 9mm. ANY of those can do the job quite well. I might be more picky if I were choosing something to defend against water buffalo, but I honestly don't expect many of those to be invading my home routinely.
     
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  20. Supervisor42

    Supervisor42 Banned

    Jan 12, 2013
    Arab, Alabama
    This is gonna be fun!:D
    You'll probably need 3-2x4's to stop the carbine round. I know it'll fly thru 4x4 pine.
    You'll see why some of us are obsessed with ft-lbs;).
    Oh, and please-please-please find a softpoint carbine round to shoot the gallon water jug!!!! It's worth the effort:).