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Kel-Tec listens to their customers? LMAO ... you mean how they killed the P11 off instead of updating it, and a company like SCCY - which produces a total ripoff of the P11 - beat them to the punch and released the DVG-1, which is the striker-fired P11 with a trigger-that-doesn't-suck for which MANY of us have been wanting for a long, LONG time. Meanwhile, KT is cranking out such "highly desirable" gems as an ugly, bulky, awkward, freaky-looking hi-cap .22 LR like the CP-33 which virtually nobody wanted? Seriously, there's like 3 of these things that have been sitting in the case at my favorite LGS for literally MONTHS untouched while darn near anything and everything pew-pew has been flying out the door as fast as it comes in. KT has adopted a marketing model of "build weird new stuff and hope it CREATES a demand" rather than "look at what the market actually wants and make a better/more innovative version of that" for their designs. It's annoying and frustrating as all heck. Don't get me wrong, I will always love my little P32's and my hard-chromed P11, and I can respect things like the SUB2000, KSG, and KS7, because those are all things with practical applications and designs which people actually WANTED, and they all sell quite well ... but seriously, WTF was KT thinking by killing off the P11 entirely instead of updating/upgrading it to a striker-fired design with functional refinements when subcompact double-stack 9mm's like the Sig P365 and Springfield Hellcat are super hot sellers right now?

Sorry. I've argued this point a slew of times before, but it still chaps my hide. One of the reasons blind brand loyalty is silly: some gun companies will make incredibly dumb moves now and then, and the folks that act like everything they churn out is ingenious and engineering gold are just blind to reality. Is the P50 a good idea? Well ... sorta. As long as they come out with a carbine version and it's significantly cheaper than the FN P90 from which its magazines were taken, then yeah, totally a good idea. Y'know, just like the Ruger 57 is cool for being an FN Five-Seven that doesn't cost a freaking grand and actually has a manual safety that isn't in a stupid location (even though manual safeties on self-defense pistols are dumb, but on a range toy, I'll let it slide). But as far as being a pistol design ... bleh. Big, bulky, awkward, unnecessarily weird, and only existing because it's begging to be made into an SBR or at least to have a pistol brace attached to it immediately (unless the ATF bans them without tax stamps in the next few months, which is looking more likely than not). There is literally ZERO reason for KT to use a P90 magazine as the basis for their design if they weren't already planning on making a carbine version of this thing because it's every bit as cumbersome and awkward as a Calico pistol...



...compared to the Calico carbine...



Some designs just do not lend themselves well to a pistol format. Like the AR and AK platforms, those were designed originally as rifles/carbines until someone said, "Hey, if we cut the barrel down and eliminate the stock, we can pretend that it's a pistol!" when in reality it's just a carbine/rifle with crappier velocity/ballistics and a short sight radius.

So, again, good on KT for making a more affordable P90 alternative, since basically no one has produced one up until now (aside from a few weird AR-platform models chambered in 5.7) as far as the inevitable carbine model goes. But as far as the pistol ... bleh. That's like Ford coming out with a hybrid station wagon version of a new base-level Mustang first and trying to get all of those sales first before eventually releasing the hatchback/fastback GT model that people actually want. Put the less desirable crap up front first and squeeze out them sales as much as you can because once the REAL thing comes out that people want, that other stupid first model will be all but totally forgotten. It makes sense from a business model perspective ... SORTA ... because some tepid sales of a weird model PLUS a desirable model will total more than just the desirable model by itself ... but c'mon, folks. Weird, awkward pistol in weird caliber with weird existing magazine design as a basis. We know what's really going on here ... and what's inevitably coming... ;)
If you think keltec has bad quality control you're gonna love SCCY

Also, I wouldn't call the p50 a 'p90 alternative'. One is a rifle, one's a pistol. I have a ps90 and I'm considering this pistol.
 

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I don't have a use for a P50, but I still want one. If I could buy ammo for it, it might be a gun that I don't need, but need anyway. I'd buy it and the rifle version, just as I did for the PLR-16 and SU-16, and the PMR-30 and CMR-30. I'm still waiting on a rifle version to go with my CP33.

Apparently darkwiter77 doesn't like the weirder Kel-Tec firearms, and that's fine, but I love them even more.

I'm not a Kel-Tec spokesperson and I don't have any inside information, but my guess is that maybe they considered the PF-9 to be close enough to a P11 Gen 2 and didn't want them competing against each other, although I too would have liked to have seen a striker fired and more refined version of the venerable P11. I thought it was too iconic to discontinue.

I do admit to a lack of objectivity. If Kel-Tec made a 50 BMG version of the PLR-16, I'd probably buy one. I know I'd buy a PLR in .308, just because. I may have moved beyond being a Kel-Tec fan (fanatic) to become a Kel-Tec fet (fetishist). I'm not suffering from mental illness. I quite enjoy it.
I like keltec because of originality. The weirder the idea, the more I like it. Otherwise, I'd go with a company that has better quality control....
 

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If you think keltec has bad quality control you're gonna love SCCY

Also, I wouldn't call the p50 a 'p90 alternative'. One is a rifle, one's a pistol. I have a ps90 and I'm considering this pistol.
Where did I mention anything about quality control anywhere in any of my posts with regard to KT? :confused:

And again, if you'd read my post again, I didn't say the P50 ITSELF is a P90 alternative, but rather the predecessor to a carbine version that is inevitably going to follow it - THAT is to what I was referring as the P90 alternative. The Ruger 57, on the other hand, is a direct competitor to the FN Five-Seven, both being pistols of similar size, function, and capacity, but WAY different price tags, availability, and ergonomics (at least with regard to the manual safety lever).

More simply...

Ruger 57 ---> FN Five-Seven
Kel-Tec P50 carbine ---> FN P90
Kel-Tec P50 pistol ---> ????? (imaginary sci-fi space gun market?) :D

And it's not that I'm against KT making weirder firearms, but rather that they've churned out a few for whom I'm not sure there really was any sort of want/need in the market while ignoring things that totally have a willing and waiting audience. Tell me who wouldn't like to see an alternative to the Sig P365, for example, that is perhaps thinner or lighter or holds an extra round or two or whatever else, most likely costs $150 to $200 less (or better), and almost certainly has magazines that cost somewhere around $30 for something that actually works and doesn't rust if you look at it wrong (versus Sig's $50 mags that rust up if you so much as breathe on them and 15-rounders that get the mag follower hung up randomly). Nawwww, ain't no market for any of that jive. NOBODY wants a gun that's an improvement over the norm and is less costly. :p
 

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Where did I mention anything about quality control anywhere in any of my posts with regard to KT? :confused:

And again, if you'd read my post again, I didn't say the P50 ITSELF is a P90 alternative, but rather the predecessor to a carbine version that is inevitably going to follow it - THAT is to what I was referring as the P90 alternative. The Ruger 57, on the other hand, is a direct competitor to the FN Five-Seven, both being pistols of similar size, function, and capacity, but WAY different price tags, availability, and ergonomics (at least with regard to the manual safety lever).

More simply...

Ruger 57 ---> FN Five-Seven
Kel-Tec P50 carbine ---> FN P90
Kel-Tec P50 pistol ---> ????? (imaginary sci-fi space gun market?) :D

And it's not that I'm against KT making weirder firearms, but rather that they've churned out a few for whom I'm not sure there really was any sort of want/need in the market while ignoring things that totally have a willing and waiting audience. Tell me who wouldn't like to see an alternative to the Sig P365, for example, that is perhaps thinner or lighter or holds an extra round or two or whatever else, most likely costs $150 to $200 less (or better), and almost certainly has magazines that cost somewhere around $30 for something that actually works and doesn't rust if you look at it wrong (versus Sig's $50 mags that rust up if you so much as breathe on them and 15-rounders that get the mag follower hung up randomly). Nawwww, ain't no market for any of that jive. NOBODY wants a gun that's an improvement over the norm and is less costly. :p
Are you sure about that? Its not kel tec style to make clones. They'd sooner make weird **** like this than a p90 clone
 

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Where the heck did I say anything about clones? Are you even replying to messages in the same thread? Or the same forum? :confused:
 

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Folks need to stop comparing the P50, in any form, to the P90. It's clearly its own thing. Besides, we peasants cannot have the P90. Even if you SBR a PS90, it's still a PS90 because it lacks the P90's happy switch.
 

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Folks need to stop comparing the P50, in any form, to the P90. It's clearly its own thing. Besides, we peasants cannot have the P90. Even if you SBR a PS90, it's still a PS90 because it lacks the P90's happy switch.
P90s are out there. There’s one for sale at Tennessee Silencer. I didn’t ask their price.

Edit: Ah, you're right P90s aren't transferrable to individuals. The one in the cabinet at TS was short barrel and full auto, but must just be a demo gun for their suppressor sales and tied to their business licenses.
 

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My bad, I forgot to put the S in PS90 - knew there was a semi-auto version (also with a longer barrel, I think) but didn't realize there was an "S" model designation to differentiate it from the original select-fire model. Either way, I figure the concept is pretty well the same, and my point remains.

Being that the P50 uses the P90/PS90's magazine design and cartridge, it's really not all that different beyond size and cost. The FN original is more sleek and compact than the P50 carbine likely will be, and is almost the size of the P50, but it's a full-on bullpup design. The P50 seems more like a kinda-sorta-but-not-really bullpup, definitely looks more bulky (even if it doesn't weigh more), and looks even more like a sci-fi space gun than the P90. But it's trying to fill the same market niche by using the same mags, same caliber, and similar format, so a comparison does seem fair. I mean, what else do you figure it's intended purpose is by design? Hunting? Target shooting? Three-gun matches? Nope. Seems geared more toward personal defense and LE/military applications than anything else ... which is pretty much the same as the FN P90/PS90. Either something you can stow in the ol' truck in case of zombies or whatever, or something for the urban homestead (again, zombies - always a justification, right? :D ) with a high-speed, lightweight projectile that would, at least in theory, be less prone to overpenetrate through a bad guy and/or walls, a-la 5.56/.223. Maybe as a concealable-ish option for security details, such as the "pistol" versions of MP5's, Micro UZI's, and the like from the 80's/90's?
 

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My bad, I forgot to put the S in PS90 - knew there was a semi-auto version (also with a longer barrel, I think) but didn't realize there was an "S" model designation to differentiate it from the original select-fire model. Either way, I figure the concept is pretty well the same, and my point remains.

Being that the P50 uses the P90/PS90's magazine design and cartridge, it's really not all that different beyond size and cost. The FN original is more sleek and compact than the P50 carbine likely will be, and is almost the size of the P50, but it's a full-on bullpup design. The P50 seems more like a kinda-sorta-but-not-really bullpup, definitely looks more bulky (even if it doesn't weigh more), and looks even more like a sci-fi space gun than the P90. But it's trying to fill the same market niche by using the same mags, same caliber, and similar format, so a comparison does seem fair. I mean, what else do you figure it's intended purpose is by design? Hunting? Target shooting? Three-gun matches? Nope. Seems geared more toward personal defense and LE/military applications than anything else ... which is pretty much the same as the FN P90/PS90. Either something you can stow in the ol' truck in case of zombies or whatever, or something for the urban homestead (again, zombies - always a justification, right? :D ) with a high-speed, lightweight projectile that would, at least in theory, be less prone to overpenetrate through a bad guy and/or walls, a-la 5.56/.223. Maybe as a concealable-ish option for security details, such as the "pistol" versions of MP5's, Micro UZI's, and the like from the 80's/90's?
My PS90 is my primary HD gun because the 5.7 round is less likely to overpenetrate. I keep it loaded with two mags coupled together. One is loaded with SS198, the other EA T6B. That gives me 100 rounds on the gun, plus three more mags loaded in a mag carrier that I can throw over my shoulder. If I can't get the job done with all of that, I'm doing something wrong.

The P50 - if it works - will likely become another truck gun option. I can keep it loaded whereas I can't with a rifle or a shotgun. If a brace option becomes available I will probably add one. May even SBR it.
 

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A preorder for a Kel Tec occurs a year after launch smugface

But really.... In the current market, with a Kel Tec launch like this.... you'd have to have some serious connections.

Or try giving Kel Tec a call and place an order.
 

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Where did I mention anything about quality control anywhere in any of my posts with regard to KT? :confused:

And again, if you'd read my post again, I didn't say the P50 ITSELF is a P90 alternative, but rather the predecessor to a carbine version that is inevitably going to follow it - THAT is to what I was referring as the P90 alternative. The Ruger 57, on the other hand, is a direct competitor to the FN Five-Seven, both being pistols of similar size, function, and capacity, but WAY different price tags, availability, and ergonomics (at least with regard to the manual safety lever).

More simply...

Ruger 57 ---> FN Five-Seven
Kel-Tec P50 carbine ---> FN P90
Kel-Tec P50 pistol ---> ????? (imaginary sci-fi space gun market?) :D

And it's not that I'm against KT making weirder firearms, but rather that they've churned out a few for whom I'm not sure there really was any sort of want/need in the market while ignoring things that totally have a willing and waiting audience. Tell me who wouldn't like to see an alternative to the Sig P365, for example, that is perhaps thinner or lighter or holds an extra round or two or whatever else, most likely costs $150 to $200 less (or better), and almost certainly has magazines that cost somewhere around $30 for something that actually works and doesn't rust if you look at it wrong (versus Sig's $50 mags that rust up if you so much as breathe on them and 15-rounders that get the mag follower hung up randomly). Nawwww, ain't no market for any of that jive. NOBODY wants a gun that's an improvement over the norm and is less costly. :p
Yeah, I read that. I also read your very next post where you both assume there's gonna be a p50 carbine, and you say that the p50 and p90, a pistol, and a bullpup rifle, in your own words, "really not all that different beyond size and cost" because they use the same mag and cartridge

Which is kinda like saying the sub 2000 glock compatible model is not that different from glocks
 

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A preorder for a Kel Tec occurs a year after launch smugface

But really.... In the current market, with a Kel Tec launch like this.... you'd have to have some serious connections.

Or try giving Kel Tec a call and place an order.
Kel Tec doesn't sell directly. Even if it's on their site for sale, it goes to a distributor. That being said, Chad Enos from KT claims the P50 will be shipping in early March.

I called my local sources who have, in recent years, been able to get me the latest Kel Tec goodie within days of launch, and none of them are taking pre-orders or compiling a waitlist. It's catch-as-catch-can this time around. Maybe I'll luck out and I'll snag one in early March. Then again, maybe I won't.
 

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Early March? I can't even get a P17 without paying Gunbroker prices. :confused:
 

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Early March? I can't even get a P17 without paying Gunbroker prices. :confused:
I don't doubt they're going to start shipping in March. The issue is, at least in my neck of the woods, all of our LGS are so overwhelmed with people still panic buying, that they don't have the staff to handle special orders. And all of them have stopped updating their inventory online because it goes out the door faster than they can post it. Even the places that have known me for 20+ years are saying they won't hold or even take a deposit on anything because they're that busy.
 

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I don't doubt they're going to start shipping in March. The issue is, at least in my neck of the woods, all of our LGS are so overwhelmed with people still panic buying, that they don't have the staff to handle special orders. And all of them have stopped updating their inventory online because it goes out the door faster than they can post it. Even the places that have known me for 20+ years are saying they won't hold or even take a deposit on anything because they're that busy.
My guys hold back a couple boxes of hard to get ammo they know I use when it comes in. Same thing when a gun comes in they know I want. Twenty year loyal customer and they can’t be bothered to spend 5 minutes to get something rolling, WOW!
 
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