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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
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Hi guys! New account because I lost my old one. Not that I ever posted anyways...

The account page says I should introduce myself here: https://soehoe.id/perkenalkan-diri-agan-disini.t550/unread but I have no idea what that is. It's not in English....

I tried looking around for my answer, but links to forum posts weren't working, even though I could see the forums and click on posts. I've never seen that sort of problem before, so I doubt it was NoScript breaking things.

Background
But, on to my KSG. It went click today instead of bang. I don't get to shoot it much because the outdoor range I go to is about 2 hours away. Local indoor ranges don't allow shotguns, but you probably feel that pain too.

I recently discovered that Winchester bulk ammo from Walmart does not work well in any kind of shotgun. I'm not sure how they still sell it when it causes the same problems in a KSG, a Saiga 12, and a Maverick 88: the spent shell can't be ejected.

I discovered this the time before last that I took out the KSG to shoot. Luckily, there was another KSG owner at the range, and he said he ran into something like this and that you would have to take it apart. I don't think we took it all apart at the range, but I did so later after watching a youtube video on how to do that.

After that, I shot almost 100 rounds of cheap Federal birdshot through it with no problems, along with some Rio buck and slugs, and some cheap italian buckshot from walmart. Never had any problems with the heavier loads. It's sat in my safe for... a year or two (?) since then, and I took it with me to the range today.

Today's problem
I've had success with Remington and Federal birdshot, so that's what I was shooting today. The KSG fed the ammo, went click, and ejected the ammo, but didn't fire. I manually removed all of the ammo from the tube by pushing on the thingey that normally holds the shells in place. I want to say that the first shell didn't load, but I'm not sure of that.

Preliminary DDG search yields nothing, and with the forum links not working, for example in the FAQ, I figured I would just ask about this problem. I haven't taken anything apart yet, but will do so later.

Is this a known issue? Did I reassemble it wrong the last time I took it apart? Did I lose my firing pin somehow?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I took the gun apart and things seem OK, I guess. I noticed that there's about 1mm of travel that the bolt can move towards the chamber. 1mm seems like a lot. However, it also seems like the trigger hammers the bolt home. I can't tell if the bolt is in battery or not. It seems like it, and then I can push it ~1mm more towards the chamber.
 

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Did the rest of the ammo work? Did you stop at that point? Did you check the shell for a dimple on the primer? Did you try firing the round again?
 

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The design is not zero lockup. Since shotshells do not stretch, like metallic cartridges, you can use a fired one in your chamber to check the bolt movement. You may need to cut off the crimp section of the used shotshell to make for easier sliding into the chamber to do this test. Once you have the shotshell in there, you'll see that the bolt rests on the back of the shotshell and things are much tighter than you describe with an empty chamber.

....I want to say that the first shell didn't load, but I'm not sure of that....

More than likely, you short stroked the KSG. This is not uncommon, since the KSG has an extra little tension or force to be overcome at the rearward travel of its slide. If you don't do that... it does exactly as you describe. I've done it, btw.

Lose the firing pin? Oh hell man, just do a field strip and look at the bolt. Its either there, or it ain't, or its busted. Never heard of a busted KSG firing pin, but... I suppose it can happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
  1. Did the rest of the ammo work?
  2. Did you stop at that point?
  3. Did you check the shell for a dimple on the primer?
  4. Did you try firing the round again?
  1. Didn't try.
  2. Yes.
  3. No. In retrospect, I should have known to do that.
  4. Yes, in another shotgun. Fired fine.
I am well aware of the short stroking problem. I don't recall if I've ever short stroked it, but this is the shotgun I learned to pump on, and I make sure to <<flying attack helicopter>> up on it. Could have been a short stroke, however, my spidey sense said it was a technical issue, because I also had issues engaging and disengaging the safety (only that one time though). Since so many things were going on, and I'm not as comfortable with the KSG's innards and mechanisms as I am with other guns, I removed the shells manually and put it away.

I might use a spent shell to inspect the chamber some more before I send it back. Thanks for breaking it down barney style about how things work!

After posting last night, I field stripped the KSG and inspected the action and things looked OK. There is a little bit of surface rust starting to form in some of the hard to reach places, but things seemed OK. I kept digging on the forum and saw a couple of things to look out for, but I didn't see any wear on anything. The firing pin doesn't protrude much, maybe 1mm. I guess that's all it needs?

I noticed some discoloring in the chamber, so it's possible that Winchester birdshot that I got stuck in there that one time left a lasting impression. The chamber felt smooth to my finger though.

I called Kel Tec and they will send me a label and take a look at it, so that's good.
 

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The firing pin doesn't protrude much, maybe 1mm. I guess that's all it needs?

I noticed some discoloring in the chamber, so it's possible that Winchester birdshot that I got stuck in there that one time left a lasting impression. The chamber felt smooth to my finger though.
I can't recall if the KSG firing pin is rebounding - ie, like a 1911, where it protrudes from the bolt face via momentum, which is farther than the hammer would push it. Smudgy chambers and barrels are normal for all shotguns.

The KSG has suffered from very stiff extraction, due to excessive phosphate finish in the chamber. There are related parts problems from trying to force the shell out of the chamber with the slide only (as opposed to some help from a rod down the bore to tap things backward). That has been the only real bugbear in the KSG, and, its quite fixable, even at home.
 

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  1. Did the rest of the ammo work?
  2. Did you stop at that point?
  3. Did you check the shell for a dimple on the primer?
  4. Did you try firing the round again?
  1. Didn't try.
  2. Yes.
  3. No. In retrospect, I should have known to do that.
  4. Yes, in another shotgun. Fired fine.
1. You should have tried more ammo
2. You should have tried more ammo before deciding the gun was broken
3 & 4. You got rid of the evidence

If you are sending it back for surface rust and chamber issues, I guess that’s ok. I don’t think I would send it back because 1 round didn’t fire. I would do a lot more investigating before that.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
1. You should have tried more ammo
2. You should have tried more ammo before deciding the gun was broken
3 & 4. You got rid of the evidence

If you are sending it back for surface rust and chamber issues, I guess that’s ok. I don’t think I would send it back because 1 round didn’t fire. I would do a lot more investigating before that.
I agree. But when I ask Kel Tec: "What else can I do?" and they reply "Ship it to us for free and we'll fix it for free and ship it back to you for free.", my interpretation/interpolation is that's manufacturer speak for "yeah, we know this is a problem, we'll take care of you".

Since the local gunsmiths don't work on anything besides ARs, I'd be flying solo to try to fix it, unless I lucked out finding a how-to on the net. Eventually I found some posts here that were close, but given that the range I can shoot it is so far away, that just makes it a really big hassle to try to iterate through baby steps to fix it. Which is would have done if I got some direction, a manual, or a white paper from the manufacturer. But I was promised a return label. FYI, it hasn't shown up yet :-/
 

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I’m just saying you should have gathered more info before sending it back. You would have given them more to go on and improved your chances of having them get it fixed.

Good luck.
 

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Just so you know... they are about to, or already have, close down for 2 weeks during the holidays. Then they get caught up in the Shot Show. Their CS really slows down right about now so your shottie may be gone for a month or two.
 

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Everyone is different in their ability to diagnose _and correct_ (if necessary) problems and issues. There are a great many well experienced and well versed folks here. And a great many newbies, or folks that are less able to sort things out on their own.

I know that I generally try to help folks out.... but gun owners tend to be an anxious lot, especially those who are new to things. Low patience. Hell, at my age... in my 7th decade of life, patience is built in, but I was there once.

This is a no win situation. The original poster (no offense, just an example) has a lower ability than some of the seasoned shooters here. If he tries to correct his problem, and fubars his KSG, folks will say "you should have sent it in". If he sends it in, folks will say "you should have tried more on your own". No win.....

And, there are folks who are just not suited to certain firearms. I was an active NRA pistol and rifle instructor for nearly 45 years. I've not seen it all, but seen plenty. I've seen shooters that could handle a Remington pump .22, even though six other shooters had no problem with it! Human nature, it happens.

I can't stand in another man's shoes, but I can say if they ain't comfy, maybe he should do something about it, have someone do something about it for him, or get anudder pair o'shoes.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When I talked to Kel Tec customer service, they said it would take a while to fix, and I was OK with that. I haven't gotten the label yet, and if they're closed for 2 weeks, I guess I will have to wait a while longer before calling them.

As far as ability and shoes, there's only so much you can do with nothing (manual is out of date, internet doesn't know, 0 whitepapers, no Instructables guide, no YouTube guide, etc...). From reading the board, it seems that the manual refers to an old version of the KSG and therefore won't apply to all of them. This is my only KSG, I don't know anyone else who has a KSG, and I don't have a reason to believe there is a gunsmith near me that is able or willing to look at a gun that is not an AR (see below for that story). Given the totality of the circumstances AND that the manufacturer is readily available to call for support, I called them. They decided on the next course of action. I'm not sure how this turned into "OP isn't capable" :-/

I'm not buthurt that you think I overlooked something (by all means point that out so I can learn), however, I am raw because this sort of thing happens all the time when I'm running circles around someone in other aspects of my life. Imagine if a 5 year old tells you that they are better than you after you just beat them in some sort of game. Similar phenomenon. In this particular case, I'm not an expert, but I get the same phenomenon in cases where I am expert level. Its quite mindboggling.

As I re-read the posts above, I want to add that I did try to fire 3 times, and there were at least 2 rounds I tried to fire. Not just the one. My mistake.

Cokeman: Are there any other troubleshooting tips that you have if something like this happens to someone else? How many of them apply to firearms in general and/or pump guns in general? I have more experience shooting than fixing guns, but I do like to upgrade them. However, most of mine just go bang without me having to fix them, so I don't get much oppurtunity to fix them.

I was at the range to dial in my newly installed automatic gas regulator in my Saiga 12. I brought the KSG along because it's always fun to shoot. I fired between 200 - 300 shells in the Saiga in total, and I picked up the KSG when my shoulder was pretty beat up and I was getting bored with the Saiga. Dealing with the KSG seemed more like a hassle that far away from everything, so that's why I didn't field strip it or bust out the Sherlock Holmes hat. I continued to test the regulator, and I'm pretty sure I found the right spot because it works almost all the time with birdshot, and works fine with heavier loads. TAC-47 autoplug if you're interested.

The reason I know that none of the gunsmiths in the area work on anything besides ARs actually has to do with the Saiga. I was trying to figure out how much was too much force to get the regulator housing off of the barrel while I was trying to install the new regulator. Related to my rant above, I frequently break things by using too much force (Like Superman's world of cardboard speech), so I didn't want to break my irreplaceable Saiga's barrel (FYI, they're not available for import any longer). I took the gun a few places and called some supposed sage of a gunsmith, and only the gun-sage had any interest or ability to talk about an Ak platform gun. Due to logistics, I wouldn't have been able to get it to him for a while, but chatting with him emboldened me to try again (must have been his sageliness!). Eventually, using a piece of wood, I whacked on the piece perpendicular to the barrel and that loosened it up. Seems all the shooting I had already done with it allowed carbon to get in there and lock things up real good.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Kel Tec is still closed, and I never received a tag, so I went to the range the other day. The KSG fired, and I ran some birdshot through it, including some stuff meant for doves that I guess was a little more powerful.

The slide was really dragging to eject, and eventually I got a shell stuck in the chamber after an attempted double feed.

Right now, it's mostly apart, the bolt is removed, and at some point I will try to not shoot myself while forcibly ejecting a round from the chamber.

It definitely seems like I have the problem with too much parkerizing in the chamber. I'll see if I can rig up a sponge, a dowel, and some sandpaper to waller out the chamber a little bit.
 

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The methodology is to take a 1/2 inch dowel, cut a slot in the end, put cloth backed paper thru it, and spin (the dowl, and hence the paper) vigorously.
 

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Or you can just bag up the pieces & ship it back when you get the return tag. They won't care if i's in one piece or not.

JMHO course
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Lots of ground to cover, so here they are sectioned out.

Kel Tec fixed it for free

I sent off my KSG and Kel Tec worked on it. It's so weird to receive a gun at your house..... lol They replaced the bolt, serviced the chamber and "adjusted swedge" whatever that means.

Range trip
I took it to the range and it fired the heavy stuff fine, but seemed sticky on cheap Estate birdshot. Nothing got stuck, but after the bolt unlocked, I felt a marked difference in friction when I was racking it. I shot about 25 rounds of Estate and ~20 rounds of higher brass stuff (slugs, buck, etc).

Choice of Ammo
I have specific problems with the cheap walmart Winchester ammo in 3 different shotguns (KSG, Saiga 12, Maverick 88), but other comparably cheap ammo seems to work fine or mostly fine. Walmart Federal bulk, Estate bulk/birdshot, even Remington Gunclub all seem to work fine. Remington gunclub is the coolest since it's OD green and has a high tacticool efficiency. Winchester wouldn't be able to make that bulk ammo if people didn't buy it, and I've seen other people complain more about that specifically than any other cheap birdshot. How is this possible?

Fluff and buff
The FAQ link to the fluff and buff doesn't work, and I can't seem to find the actual fluff and buff post. I was able to find this one, but it also refers to a fluff and buff post, so that means it's not the original/FAQ fluff and buff. Can y'all drop a link please?

I looked into a Flex Hone and wouldn't mind spending $40, but it seems that it's one time use. If it's a 1 time use, I think I will try the bore brush with steel wool approach first. I'm guessing that any shotgun could use a chamber polishing to prep it for cheap ammo.

Stuck shell/case
A few posts back I said that a shell had gotten stuck in the chamber. Well, it turns out it was an empty shell. It was still nerve wracking to get it out because I thought it was a live shell. I used a cleaning rod with some tape wrapped around it to give more surface area on the part that was going to touch the shell. Felt weird because it was a spent shell.

Click instead of Boom
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but the reason for my OP, the "click instead of boom" was because I had failed to function check when reassembling the gun, and had to adjust something. If the bars that drive the bullpup firing hammer are not in their proper place, the hammer won't fall, but the mechanism will still make a click sound when you pull the trigger. To fix it, all you have to do is push the bars into their proper alignment, even with the gun fully assembled. It's somewhere between a pubic hair and a smidge worth of adjustment, so not much at all.
 

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Glad to see you got it back.

... It's so weird to receive a gun at your house..... lol ...
You think that's weird try having the UPS driver bring you a SUB9 KT repaired to your work when it's addressed to your house. Showed it to him, he thought it was pretty neat.

Smallish town & I was having a lot of motorcycle parts coming in around then as well as his deliveries to the office. Cool none the less.
 

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Flex hones are not one time use, they are many times use. For BEST performance, you need to use a LOT of very light oil with those. In a different size of course, I use those on the inside of the Harley jugs to clean 'em up when doing a top end refurb. I think I'm still using the first one I ever bought, as they're spring loaded, not really designed to remove much material at all. You need to use them SLOW, maybe 120-150 rpm max, and use an in/out action as you do, lest you "cut grooves" from the balls. For shotty chambers, I much rather prefer some wet/dry paper, with lots of oil, put thru a slot in a wooden dowel. Don't overthink the shotty chamber, its not very precision at all. Its NOT like a rifle or handgun chamber, or Harley jug for that matter. You get done with maybe 240 grit, graduate to some 400 grit and you're good to go. Steel wool doesn't cut phosphate (aka Parkerizing) nearly as well.
 

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Guess i missed this post. I Would have helped. I have seen a lot of issues and worked thru all of them.

Next time i'll help.
 
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