KSG Issues Right Out of the Box

Discussion in 'KSG Bullpup Shotgun' started by Boom45, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Boom45

    Boom45 New Member

    8
    Mar 3, 2013
    First and foremost, thank you for the very helpful forum. I’m a recent Kel-Tec KSG purchaser and this is my first post to the forum.

    I’ve recently acquired a brand new Kel-Tec KSG (serial x24##) from GunBroker after trying months to get one from my local shops. As you all know, this equated to a pretty expensive purchase :) I went into this purchase knowing that this is still a fairly new gun (design) and there might be issues that’ll have to be resolved. That being said, I am one of the unlucky ones who is seeing feed/ejection issues pretty much right out of the box.

    Upon unboxing the gun and seeing it for the first time, I have to admit that I was impressed. The gun looked and felt great (good job Kel-Tec!). Before purchasing the gun, I’ve viewed all the videos and know that this gun has to be treated with authority in order to make it function properly. I decided to give it a go and loaded it up with a bunch of A-Zoom Snap-Caps. I cycle the slide back firmly and slammed it forward only to have my first jam. The snap cap was sitting vertical between the bolt and the barrel. I cleared the jam and successfully chambered the next round. I then pulled the trigger, re-racked and end up with a failure to eject. I cleared the jam once again, and re-racked only to end up with a double feed. One could only imagine the disappointment that I felt after dropping more than 2K for this gun (not bashing, just saying).

    At this point, it was time to disassemble the gun and clean it up. After spending a couple of hours doing so it was time to test it once again with the Snap-Caps. Sadly, all the same issues persisted to exist. I’m finding that this gun fails to cycle approximately 2/3rd of the time. Everything from failure to feed, failure to eject, and double feeds. Please note that all of my testing has been solely done with Snap-Caps. I’ve yet to take the gun down to the range, and prefer not to cycle live rounds in my living room (especially with a brand new gun).

    So at this point, I guess my questions for the forum are as follows. How many of you have successfully cycled Snap-Caps? How many of you have cycled with Snap-Caps and have seen issues that you don’t normally see with live rounds? Am I jumping to conclusions that the gun needs to be repaired due to it failing to cycle the Snap-Caps? For me, I would really like to practice with Snap-Caps and feel that the gun should cycle them flawlessly. Is this a legitimate reason to insist that Kel-Tec repair my gun? Do I even bother taking this gun to the range or should I keep it in its new (unfired condition) and return it to Kel-Tec to have them inspect it?

    All comments are welcomed. Thank you!
     
  2. Mj1268

    Mj1268 New Member

    100
    Feb 19, 2013
    Did you try cycling them through while the gun is level or was the gun facing down? Try standing and cycling them through while in a shooting position.
     

  3. Boom45

    Boom45 New Member

    8
    Mar 3, 2013
    Yes Mj1268, I was in a shooting position. I also made sure that my forearm wasn't blocking the ejection port.

    I know this gun is capable of a lot more. I've seen guys in vids cycle this gun sideways and even upside down with no issues.
     
  4. Mj1268

    Mj1268 New Member

    100
    Feb 19, 2013
    You can't cycle upside down and sideways with minishells so I wasn't sure if the size or weight of the snap caps were an issue in a different position.

    Hmm, sounds like you got owned by a bad seller..... I would send it to the factory.
     
  5. Boom45

    Boom45 New Member

    8
    Mar 3, 2013
    The weight of the Snap-Cap was also a concern of mine. Perhaps the failure to eject issues will subside while shooting with real shotgun shells. The spent shotgun shell is much lighter than a snap cap and perhaps will eject with no issues. However, I also have double feed issues and failure to feed issues and I'm thinking the snap caps are giving the proper representation of how a real shotgun shell will behave during those circumstances.

    I don't neccessarily blame the seller. He stated that the gun was brand new and never shot. He probably didnt even cycle the gun and had no way of telling the gun had issues. Should he have tested cycling a few rounds? Who knows. I'm not going to hold it against him.

    Thanks for you input!
     
  6. Whodat

    Whodat New Member

    352
    Jun 20, 2008
    Hey Boom45,
    Welcome to the forum. Long story short, go shoot the KSG. ;). Handle it as you would any other pump shotgun.
     
  7. Shooter762x51

    Shooter762x51 New Member

    25
    Dec 22, 2012
    USA
    My KSG cycles snap caps (a-zoom) just fine in all positions. It sounds as though the double feed eliminator DFE spring may not be working correctly. Check it to make sure it's not broken, as they are made of thin steel which can fracture and break. This would cause all of the problems that you've described.
     
  8. Boom45

    Boom45 New Member

    8
    Mar 3, 2013
    Thanks Shooter762x51. I inspected the DFE spring when I took the gun apart to clean. It seemed fine to me. I'm going to call Kel-Tec in the morning.

    On a side note, a couple of more issues that I have run into with the gun. I put on a set of Magpul MBUS sights. After using a laser bore sighter to sight the gun, I noticed that the rail on top of the barrel must not be aligned. I had to crank the rear sight 3 quarters of the way to the left in order for it to be on target with the laser dot. Also, my takedown pins are nearly impossible to remove and re-insert. I had to use a hammer and a wooden dowel to get them out then back in. Just more issues I'm going to have to list when I return the gun for servicing.
     
  9. Boom45

    Boom45 New Member

    8
    Mar 3, 2013
    Just wanted to give an update to the thread. After trying for days to get someone on the phone from Kel-Tec, they offered to send me a shipping label to send the gun back to them. I did so last week and they mentioned it would take 2-3 weeks to look at it. No telling how long it'll be to get it back.

    For those who have called Kel-Tec, you will know how frustrating it is to get someone on the phone. Currently there is no option to speak to someone about the KSG. I had to select one of there other guns just to get someone on the phone. Several times I waited in the queue only to be disconnected and have to do it all over again. Like I said, this took days of trying. Very frustrating. I will keep the thread posted on how well the repair goes.
     
  10. iPACKgoldDOTS

    iPACKgoldDOTS New Member

    245
    Mar 28, 2013
    Cocoa
    The sticky takedown pin is from the molding process were the holes are not reamed after. Not sure why our mold company doesn't do it but its a simple fix with a reamer and a drill. Just go slow. Wouldn't wanna slip
     
  11. 1man1gun

    1man1gun Member

    1
    Sunday
    Hey there, I recently purchased a KSG off gunbroker and had the same problem you described. I took a video with my buddy's phone because it can film in slow motion.

    From what I can tell from the video, as the bolt carrier slides back to extract the shell, the lifter rises too early and catches the front of the snap cap (A-zooms). This causes the shell to be retained as the you rack the pump forward, resulting in a jam.

    This is my first post so I don't think I can link the video, but I removed the "https://" to see if it will let me post it.

    "www.dropbox.com/s/v26e9t4xm129oa3/KSG%20Malfunction.MOV?dl=0"

    Interestingly enough, the KSG fired about 75 shells at the range with no malfunctions. Conclusion? Could be the snap caps. Anyways, hope this helped.
     
  12. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    50
    Jul 17, 2017
    I suspect the problem here is that there's a big difference between a snap cap and an action proving dummy.

    Snap caps are not the same size as a live cartridge nor the same weight or balance.
    A snap cap is JUST a snap cap to pad the firing pin.
    They were never intended to be used as a function test cartridge.

    If you want to do practice loading or check function buy proving dummies.
    These are the exact size, weight, and balance of live ammo and are specifically intended to be used to check function.
    Note that action proving dummies may or may NOT be usable as snap caps.

    Brownell's sell an actual action proving dummy in 12 gauge, and one listed as a snap cap machined from solid aluminum.
    The aluminum version may not be as good for checking action function.

    https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...ies/12-ga-shotgun-dummy-rounds-prod67708.aspx

    https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...mies/ammo-snap-cap-dummy-rounds-prod5176.aspx

    Also from Midway:

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/475371/fiocchi-action-proving-dummy-12-gauge-2-3-4-box-of-10

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014951340/a-zoom-action-proving-dummy-round-snap-cap

    In any case, the test that counts is to shoot live ammo.
    It's not unusual for tests of just running live or dummy ammo through a gun to have failures, but when shooting live ammo it works perfectly.

    A major aid for the KSG shotgun is to do a "fluff & buff" to the action to smooth and ease operation.
    The details are up in the KSG FAQ section.
    A correctly done "polish" job makes the KSG far easier to operate and that eliminates having to "hammer the action" as is often recommended.
    I did a good job on my KSG and no matter how slow or how gently I operate it, it works 100% of the time.
     
  13. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    Good advice, and long overdue.
    There have been a couple of threads where people sent their :quote:defective:quote: KSG back to KT because it wouldn't cycle Azoom snap-caps, only to find out there was nothing wrong with it.

    I think in the last one, someone finally said: "Well, shoot tha'dam thing!!!" and that worked.
    ...Notice, we never heard from Boom45 again:rolleyes:.
     
  14. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    27
    Jul 11, 2017
    Its absolutely true, I had cause for concern over chewed up snap caps before I took it to baby's first range trip; and have now fired over 500 with no issues whatsoever.
     
  15. Borderboss

    Borderboss Member

    15
    Jun 13, 2017
    Chicagoland
    I've never used snap caps generally, nor these A-Zoom snap caps in the KSG. But looking at the information about them on Amazon, I noticed two very important things:

    1. They're not the same length as real shotgun shells. People on Amazon say they're 2-1/4 to 2-3/8 inch long.

    2. Based on the shipping weight, these snap caps are not the same weight as a real shotgun shell.

    With those two things combined, I don't know why you would expect the gun's action to operate the same as the gun would with real shells. It's apples and oranges.

    Lastly, remember that snap caps were initially designed for dry fire practice only to prevent firing pin damage. They're not really well designed for testing a gun's action.
     
  16. 62-10

    62-10 Active Member

    287
    Jan 18, 2015
    The fact that A-zooms will cycle through a basically stock Mossberg 500 w/o drama should be of interest. My KSG will also cycle them.