KSG Failure to go into Battery

Discussion in 'KSG Bullpup Shotgun' started by KSGeezus, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    Hey guys,
    I attached a video of me shooting my KSG. Only shot it once so far, around 60 rounds, but during those 60 rounds I had this issue a good 8-10 times. I Googled but couldn't find anyone else having this problem.

    If you watch the video, after the third shot on the second tube mag you'll see the slide goes around half way forward and stops. Luckily, intuitively I just pulled the slide back and then pushed I forward and it cleared. Then it does it again on the very next shot.

    Unfortunately, I didn't think while shooting to stop as soon as the slide jammed to see exactly what is going on, but playing with it at home I'm pretty sure that the round goes up the feed rap and then gets caught on the edge of the chamber.

    Anyone else have this issue? Know the fix? I want to be able to parade this gun to my friends, but this kink makes it less delicious. Thanks!



    Sorry, don't know how to embed. Daughter spilled wife's essential oils on my lap top so I'm posting from my phone.
     
  2. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    319
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    1. Slow down until you gain proficiency
    2. Take deep breaths
    3. Take long deliberate pulls backward on the slide, then go forward deliberately.
    4. Make sure your barrel is seated fully into the receiver.
     

  3. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    So if I don't breath slowly when an intruder is in the house I can expect it to not work?
    It sounds like you're trying to blame it on my operation of the weapon without a real idea of what the solution is or why.

    #4 is a possibility. Impossible to say now since I've taken it apart and put it back together several times since then. I doubt it though, because I check that when I put it back together, and had already taken it apart before the video was shot, but perhaps I missed it...

    I'm not short stroking it. It's feeding out of the mag, but it is running into a total block when feeding into the chamber. Chamber is clear, I'd already polished it when I did the video. Pretty sure it's hitting the lip of the chamber to stop so abruptly.
     
  4. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    319
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    No, what I'm saying is that when you rattle shots off as fast as you can, you introduce error, misjudgement, and lack of attention to detail.

    From memory... if the shell is catching on the lip of the chamber, I seem to recall you can bend (aka squeeze) the lifter arms closer toward the center axis of the KSG, thus lifting the shell a tad more. Only a little movement of the metal pieces is needed.
     
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  5. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    Sha-zaam

    Thank you. The only thing I could come up with was altering the edge of the chamber, which seems like a bad idea.

    Makes total sense,
    I'll try that, thanks again.
     
  6. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    27
    Jul 11, 2017
    Open up the buttstock clamshell and make sure there arent any plastic burrs on the inside where the extraction/feeding flippers move, the little rails, etc. Until we get some kind of aftermarket upgrade we need to make sure that inside plastic isnt getting too uppity.
     
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  7. MedicineRattle

    MedicineRattle Member

    36
    Mar 28, 2017
    Seattle-ish
    Both what CharlieB said (which you shazaamed already) and this. One thread, someone saw the back side of the lifter (the arms you bent? the backside where that bends and does a 180) lightly gouging in to the buttstock/shoulder pad. That friction could wreak havok on ya. I seem to recall a mention somewhere that the extended/wider pad is slightly more hollowed out (or, was it opposite?). Either way, pop that off, take a gander.
     
  8. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    Thanks Michaeljager and medicinerattle!

    I popped the butt pad off yesterday and it appears there is some wear so I dremelled it down a hair. I'd be interested in a thicker butt pad if it works in reducing felt recoil! Link?
     
  9. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    50
    Jul 17, 2017
    You can buy the thicker Kel-Tec butt pad direct from Kel-Tec or from sellers like Bullpup Armory:

    KSG
    BullpupArmory.com

    You can also buy a Limbsaver slip-on pad from Bullpup Armory and other on-line sources if you don't want to spend the buck on the Kel-Tec pad.
    The KT pad is excellent and the most useful of all accessories.

    As for your failures to feed, here's some standard checks and a few specific to the KSG:

    1. Have another shooter shoot the gun to see if the problem replicates for him too. This eliminates you as the problem.
    One possible issue that's more common with the KSG then a standard shotgun is inadvertently pulling the gun to the rear as you pump the handle forward.
    This can cause the shell to slide forward on the lifter rails and jam against the rear of the barrel.
    Not common but can happen especially when operated fast.

    2. Try a different brand/type of ammo.
    In many cases a gun just doesn't "like" some ammo and another works fine.
    For some reason, many people are resistant to trying different ammo and assume it's the gun.
    Shotgun shells are fat, soft and have square mouths that vary widely from maker to maker and type to type.

    3. Check the extractor for:
    Free movement and spring tension.
    Cracks, chips, or breaks.
    Too sharp an edge or corner.
    Fouling.

    4. Check the bolt face for roughness or burrs that may catch on a shell and prevent it from sliding up the bolt face.

    5. Check the mouth of the chamber for any burrs, roughness, or overly sharp edges that can catch a shell.
    If needed you can use the dreaded Dremel tool with a rubber abrasive tip to LIGHTLY round off and smooth any sharp edges.
    Go easy and don't over do it.
    What you want to do is put a SMALL feed ramp on the bottom of the chamber mouth so it's not sharp.

    Re-read the fluff and buff post to insure you have things smoothed up. Remember that when we talk about "polishing" gun parts we don't mean "like a mirror".
    All that's needed is to smooth the part just enough that nothing will catch on the surface.

    Make sure you relieved the rear of the forearm with a "U" shaped cut to completely clear the slide release so the forearm doesn't contact the release and interfere with total slide movement.

    Most probable cause of your failures to feed: The shell lifter is failing to lift high enough possibly due to the known recoil pad problem.
    Rounding off the rear edges of the shell lifter in the area that is close to the recoil pad may help.
     
  10. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    Thanks, dfariswheel!
    That gives me a lot of leads to go on.

    SEPARATE ISSUE: but doesn't want to clutter the board with threads:

    I want to be able to shoot skeet with this. I know, bad gun for the job, but I don't own any other scatter guns, and don't plan on buying any either. With that out of the way, what's the best way to set it up for skeet? I bought the 7.5" barrel extension from Hi-tech, but when shooting paper at around 30-40 yards doesn't seem to tighten the pattern at all...

    Thanks again, everyone. You've been a tremendous amount of help.
     
  11. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    27
    Jul 11, 2017
  12. MedicineRattle

    MedicineRattle Member

    36
    Mar 28, 2017
    Seattle-ish
    You may want to read this thread:
    https://www.thektog.org/threads/choke-for-ksg.268054/

    And in general, google about for "shotgun choke tubes" and see what they do, how/why, and that should help you get an idea of what direction you want to go in. I don't know if they can work with the Hi-Tech extension or not (I haven't looked at it as I want to keep my bullpup as stubby as I can) or if you'd need to remove it in favor of a specific choke adapter tube.
     
  13. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    Thanks, MR.
    I'm familiar with the deferent choke adapters out, but figured on an 18" barrel they wouldn't work that great. That's how I had the great (actually not great at all) idea of getting the barrel extension. Turns out the reason why no one's talking about them is they don't really do anything :/

    Oh, and for your future reference, the end of the extension is also threaded identically to the barrel so all muzzle devices can fit on it as well.
     
  14. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    27
    Jul 11, 2017
    Have you thought about flight control style wads, such Federal and Winchester make? Advantages include no special gear needed they work fine in cylinder bores, and frankly do you really want to make the KSG longer? No slug compatability issues (if you believe in that), no weight adds...
     
  15. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    I'm not concerned about the length as I will remove any extension after getting home from shooting for HD.

    Added length is almost a plus since that may allow me to shoot it at clay shooting ranges (usually we just got to the desert though).

    Thanks for the input.
     
  16. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    I did too, and I was wrong. I thought I could make up for the short barrel by using a tighter choke tube.
    I thought maybe, with an "extra-full choke", I'd be able to shoot skeet... somewhat.
    Boy was I wrong! At 30 yards every pellet would fit in a basketball size circle.
    Waaay too small for hitting skeet unless you are dead-eye Dan:eek:.
    Modified tube was perfect, just like my other gun. The 18" barrel length made absolutely no difference with a Rem choke-tube on it. It shot like every 12-gauge with a modified barrel.

    Do this:
    Lose the barrel extension if not required by the :quote:Club:quote:.
    Get a choke adapter, a modified tube, and a green-dot sight; and go shoot some skeet.
    When the other members with their $2600 'skeet-guns' accuse you of cheating...
    just smile:D. (the short KSG swings much faster than the broomstick guns and with the right choke, will put the same pattern on paper).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  17. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    50
    Jul 17, 2017
    Some years ago the NRA National Rifleman Tech Staff did a staff study on what effect barrel length had on velocity and pattern.
    The popular idea was that a longer barrel was ballistically better then a short barrel.

    They bought a Marlin Goose Gun with a 36 inch barrel, attached a choke and patterned and chronographed it.
    Then they cut one inch off, remounted the choke and tested again.
    They did this in one inch increments until they were down to a 12 inch barrel.

    Their results were.........
    1. Barrel length had no effect on pattern.
    An 18 inch barrel patterned just as well as the 36 inch barrel.
    Pattern is a function of the choke, not the barrel length.

    2. Anything ballistically that's going to happen in a shotgun barrel will happen within the first 18 inches.

    3. Any barrel over about 28 inches and it starts loosing velocity from friction.

    4. The idea that a longer barrel will shoot "harder" or farther is a relic of black powder days, when a longer barrel burned the powder more effectively.

    5. Things didn't "get out of hand" until they were down to 12 inches.

    6. The only advantage of a longer barrel in shotgunning is that a longer barrel points better then a short barrel.

    So, If you want to shoot an 18 1/2 inch barrel KSG or other, all you need to do is install a choke and you'll get the same results if you had the same choke on a longer barrel.
    Just buy one of the choke adapters and install it so you can use screw in chokes, or spend more money and have the KSG barrel threaded inside for screw in chokes.

    With the short barrel and rather clumsy feel of the KSG you probably won't be able to hit as well, but the actual patterns will be the same as a longer barreled gun.
     
  18. KSGeezus

    KSGeezus New Member

    10
    Jul 8, 2017
    Thanks Blake, as soon as I finished reading your reply I bought the items you mentioned (already had the red/green dot). Can't wait!

    DFWheel, thanks a bunch for the info. I really wish I'd known all that before I spent $90 on the barrel extension!! o_O

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  19. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    I'll take you on in skeet with my 'clumsy-feeling' KSG and to give you a clear advantage, you can shoot this:D:
    [​IMG]
    He does have a good point. You have to "unlearn" shooting with long guns and relearn with a short one. (fortunately, I didn't have that much to unlearn:rolleyes:)
    Edit: Don't take my word for what the KSG with a tube can do to skeet. Here's another "believer":
    [​IMG]
    It got downright boring watching him break every one. Sling-boom-shuck, sling-boom-shuck, sling-boom-shuck.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  20. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Active Member

    214
    Jun 1, 2016
    I was shooting clays with my son last weekend. We used a Browning semi-auto and a stock KSG with Magpul flip up sights (no chokes, barrel extender, red-dot, etc.). I want to become proficient shooting both guns and moving targets are much more fun than paper.

    Both guns destroyed lots of clays and were LOTS of fun to shoot.

    We get looks and have discussions with a bunch of people but we're not professionals, so I don't really care what detractors have to say.