Ooooh! That is an interesting concept. A pump action, dual magazine 45 Colt rifle! It's so odd that it would be right up KelTec's alley, and compete with that 9mm lever action from POF-USA.
Kel-Tec announces a .410 KSG shotgun.
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The Judge is rifled which makes it tough to use 410 slugs but I don't think it has much adverse effect on bird shot or buck shot.
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I am definitely interested in the 410 KSG. A 410 loaded with 3 inch 00 or 000 buckshot shells do just fine for home defense. I did a bunch of testing with my 410 Mossberg Shockwave and my 410 Model 500 with an 18" cylinder bore barrel using available buckshot and HD/SD ammo along with my own reloaded buckshot loads. 3" 000 buckshot loads did the best out of both guns.
The 000 buckshot loads has tight patterns out to 15 yards and then opened up to 12- 14 inches at 25 yards. And I got good penetration at 25 yards. And for the naysayers, the 5 pellets out of a 410 shell are moving just as fast as 9 pellets are out of a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell.
I can't argue with everyone's complaints about availability and price of factory 410 shells. And that is why I have been reloading my own 410 shells for 3 decades now. That includes my buckshot loads too.
For those thinking about the 410 KSG or any 410 for home defense I have a word of caution. Do NOT shoot the Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense loads through a full choke barrel. The reason for this is that the Triple Defense shells are loaded with a copper jacketed .41 caliber bullet which will not swage down when passing through a full choke.
The 000 buckshot loads has tight patterns out to 15 yards and then opened up to 12- 14 inches at 25 yards. And I got good penetration at 25 yards. And for the naysayers, the 5 pellets out of a 410 shell are moving just as fast as 9 pellets are out of a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell.
I can't argue with everyone's complaints about availability and price of factory 410 shells. And that is why I have been reloading my own 410 shells for 3 decades now. That includes my buckshot loads too.
For those thinking about the 410 KSG or any 410 for home defense I have a word of caution. Do NOT shoot the Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense loads through a full choke barrel. The reason for this is that the Triple Defense shells are loaded with a copper jacketed .41 caliber bullet which will not swage down when passing through a full choke.
Ya know, I don't understand why some folks dismiss 410 buck loads.
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I don't either except for the fact of a smaller payload.
I grew up hunting with a 410 and still prefer them for all my small game hunting. I really love it when I limit out on quail with my 410 before everyone else with there 20 or 12 gauges. Dove hunting with a 410 can be interesting at times.
The first shotgun I used was my dad's old Montgomery Wards Western Field single shot 410 made by Savage. It had a tight full choke and worked great for turkey hunting. I actually got banned from using that old single shot at turkey shoots in high school when I started beating the adults with their fancy shotguns built specifically for turkey shoots.
I grew up hunting with a 410 and still prefer them for all my small game hunting. I really love it when I limit out on quail with my 410 before everyone else with there 20 or 12 gauges. Dove hunting with a 410 can be interesting at times.
The first shotgun I used was my dad's old Montgomery Wards Western Field single shot 410 made by Savage. It had a tight full choke and worked great for turkey hunting. I actually got banned from using that old single shot at turkey shoots in high school when I started beating the adults with their fancy shotguns built specifically for turkey shoots.
I don't think I'd want to be hit with a slug from a .410 either. I just don't think it would be a whole lotta fun.
Rethinking the Power of the .410
In this excerpt from Gun Digest 2013, C. Rodney James examines slugs and ammunition for the .410. New .410 ammo is making the load more versatile than ever.
gundigest.com
No recoil to speak of, 10 rounds on tap (+ one in the pipe for 11), it might be OK for HD in the right circumstance. And as mentioned above there are more ammo options.
Now when someone comes out with .410 short shells that might make it even more attractive. No I have no inside scoop on them. It's just a fantasy.
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Production costs and better ammo. 16s used to be built on frames smaller than 12, larger than 20. To save costs, manufacturers went to 12 frames. So heavier, but less performance. Ammo has improved, so you could buy a lower recoil 12 cartridge or higher recoil 20 cartridge and get 16 performance.
Finally, 16 enthusiastically talk about wanting to buy 16s, but many don't. A gun writer was told by a shotgun manufacturer, "People scream for 16s. So we make a run of 5,000. We sell 3,000 the first six weeks, and sell the remaining 2,000 in six years".
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I doubt that we will see any 410 shells shorter than 2 1/2" since those only have 1/2 ounce loads (bird shot) as it is. Any shorter and you are into pistol bird shot rounds.I don't think I'd want to be hit with a slug from a .410 either. I just don't think it would be a whole lotta fun.
Rethinking the Power of the .410
In this excerpt from Gun Digest 2013, C. Rodney James examines slugs and ammunition for the .410. New .410 ammo is making the load more versatile than ever.
No recoil to speak of, 10 rounds on tap (+ one in the pipe for 11), it might be OK for HD in the right circumstance. And as mentioned above there are more ammo options.
Now when someone comes out with .410 short shells that might make it even more attractive. No I have no inside scoop on them. It's just a fantasy.
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Yep it’ll be on my list
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Next: KelTec KRT: a rifled KSG in 30SC (and 50LC). Bullets in these calibers are flat-nosed and compatible with tube magazines.
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The short shell would carry the same shot load with a short wad as with most all modern shells they have long cushion wads to take up room, no longer needed room. Most cartridges lengths are left over from black powder days as is the referenced dram equivalent on shell boxes.
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That is not true when it comes to 410 wads. 410 wads are not actually wads but are shot cups. There is no cushion on 410 wads.
Here is a top, side, and bottom view of some Claybuster 410 wads. Notice that there is not any type of cushion built into them. And besides some specialty 410 wads from Ballistic Products, all 410 wads are made the same.
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Most all shotgun shells are cushion shot cups and not really wads, yes I know the difference. Ballistic products shot cups are an example of what could be used in a short shell and a short shell by definition would be a specialty shell, 12 gauge mini shells have none standard shot cups or wads.
A short shell made for this application (small caliber defense) would most probably be loaded with just over powder wad/card and a short stack of OOO or .400rb , it's doable but not efficient.
A short shell made for this application (small caliber defense) would most probably be loaded with just over powder wad/card and a short stack of OOO or .400rb , it's doable but not efficient.
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And if you note, I did state the following:
Now one could load their own shells that are shorter than 2 1/2" but you will still have a reduced shot load smaller than 1/2 ounce or not enough powder to get reliable penetration.
I have been reloading 410 shells for about 30 years now. And also one has to remember that reloading shot shells is different than reloading brass cartridges. You really can not safely deviate from published load data with shot shells.
And as far as I know, no ammunition manufacturers use any of the specialty 410 wads from Ballistic Products. All will use Remington, Federal, Winchester, Clay Busters, or copies for factory ammo.
Now one could load their own shells that are shorter than 2 1/2" but you will still have a reduced shot load smaller than 1/2 ounce or not enough powder to get reliable penetration.
I have been reloading 410 shells for about 30 years now. And also one has to remember that reloading shot shells is different than reloading brass cartridges. You really can not safely deviate from published load data with shot shells.
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