New member here! I just purchased a new SU-22CA from a dealer on GunBroker this weekend, and I can hardly wait to receive it. Do you guys know if it functions OK with standard or subsonic rounds? This little rifle is just what I have been looking for - foldable to a compact size, easy optics mounting - due to the rail, high capacity, and a 1/2"-28 threaded muzzle.
It won't take much reading of the SU-22 posts to learn that it doesn't like the cheap bulk pack Remington ammo (Golden Bullet, etc.), but it does like the even less expensive bulk Blazer ($14/525) and Federal Value Pack ($16/525). With the lower portion of the ejection port slightly opened, mine is very reliable and a blast to shoot. I love the compact folding capability as well. Given your question about the subsonic ammo, I'd like to see what you're planning to put on that threaded muzzle. After you pay the $200 tax stamp and wait forever for the BATFE approval, post some pictures and a range report.
Thankfully, I have already gone through the $200.00 NFA tax stamp and BATFE waiting routine! I have a Tactical Innovations Stratus suppressor that I use on a CZ452 American 16, and a Tactical Solutions 4" threaded barrel equipped Browning Buckmark. I have quite a supply of PMC Moderator for the 452, and use Remington Subsonic, CCI Standard, and CCI Subsonic rounds in the Buckmark. The little 452 is a real tackdriver, and is equipped with a Weaver V16. It has achieved .15" groups @ 50 yds. with the PMC Moderator rounds. I do not expect this kind of accuracy from the SU-22, but the thought of a suppressed semi auto, high capacity .22 LR just seems awfully fun.
Well, if you've already done all the homework... yeehaw! I haven't tried any CCI ammo yet, but it seems that some CCI doesn't work, and I also seem to recall that some subsonic doesn't work well? I agree that the SU-22 with a suppressor would be a ton-o-fun. I wish our laws didn't force us into a situation where all firearms must be loud. That's not the case in some northwestern European countries where a quiet firearm is considered a courtesy, and not a felony. I think a good analogy would be requiring a lot of invasive government paperwork and an excessive tax before we could legally install a muffler on a car, with the rationalization being that a quiet car could more easily run over someone because they didn't hear it coming.
I think your analogy is perfectly obvious! A suppressor should require no more paperwork than a 4473 form and an instant background check. My opinion is that the current system for legally purchasing NFA items is just another form of excessive taxation that is spiced with some government snooping upon ones personal life. Would it not be wonderful if we could still purchase a Thompson SMG or a Colt Monitor from the local hardware store, and then go try it out at the closest safe place. As it is, I had to pay $299.00 plus shipping for the suppressor up front, then wait six weeks for it to be transferred to my local class III dealer, wait another two weeks for the local Chief of Police to sign off on the paper work, get prints taken of every finger of both hands by the local PD, aquire passport photos for the paperwork, then send the whole mess off to the BATFE with a check for $200.00, and finally, after ten additional weeks, my stamp arrived back at my dealers office.
Leave off the 4473 and the instant background check and we're in complete agreement. Without all of the expletives, I'm left with, "Uh, I'm not doing that."
I hear you about the background check and the 4473. These are just infringements upon our the rights granted to us by the founding fathers of this great country. NFA items should certainly require no more trouble to purchase than any other firearm. Since I wanted a suppressor, the headache of the legal red tape beat the alternative of sharing a cell with "Bubba" the sodomite.
I'm confused--are we talking about an SU-22 or a PLR-22 w/ stock? What falls under NFA rules? :-? Oh, I see: Upon re-reading the thread, I realize that L4E is referring to a suppressor.
I have tried the SU-22 with the Aguila SSS (sniper sub-sonic), and it cycles fine. But this is a 60 grain round, and it just barely stabilizes out of the 1:16" twist barrel (you really need a 1:9" twist barrel for that heavy a grain bullet). You may get some key-holeing in targets, but it is very quiet.
My dealer received my SU-22CA today, and I picked it up. I opened the box and gave it a once over, then discovered that it is one of the older models without the modified ejection port & feed ramp. I removed the bolt and recoil spring assembly, gave everything a good inspection, clean & lube, then reassembled it. The new Blackdog magazine was cracked at each assembly screw location, but it did not seem to want to fall apart, so hopefully it will last - still disappointing for a brand new product. I headed to the range to give it a workout, and took some Federal bulk pack, Remington Subsonic, Aguila SE Extra subsonic, PMC Moderators, and some CCI Stingers. If any of the above rounds did fire, the next one did not, and would not extract. The extractor claw just slid right over the rim of the cartridge, instead of hooking it. I finally became discouraged with the continuous light strikes & extraction failures. I gave up after 15 or so rounds of various manufacture, and was glad I took my cleaning rod along, because it came in handy for punching out the rounds that did not extract. So far, I am quite disappointed in my example of the SU-22CA, it is very neat in theory, but the actual shooting experience leaves me still wanting.
I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with your SU-22. Did you check to see if the two halves of the bolt are held together securely and are aligned properly? Maybe check to see if the extractor operates properly and the claw isn't chipped or otherwise damaged? A .22 shell should stay on the bolt face under the claw and you can feel the claw positively engage the brass rim without slipping off. I bet ktwm has some GOOD suggestions. I hope you stick with it. My favorite gun is usually my newest gun, and the SU-22 is no exception. Mine had a few teething pains because it's one of the first batch, but it's a ton of fun and quite accurate. I think it's worth some effort to get it working right. Hopefully it won't need a trip to Kel-Tec, but if it does, I think it's worth that too. Good luck!
I am certainly willing to do what it takes to make it work right, because the SU-22 has all the features I desire - right from the factory! I disassembled it again, checked the bolt, and found the screws to be tight. The extractor is sort of "U" shaped where it contacts the cartridge rim, instead of being flat. That may very well be the source of the extraction problem. The light strikes are a little more of a mystery, because the firing pin looks fine, and travels the proper distance without catching or binding. Thanks for your reply and suggestions Liberty!
The usual recommendation for light strikes is to clean out the firing pin channel. Sometimes there may be some debris in there that interferes with the proper motion of the firing pin. The light strikes may be related to the extraction issues. Maybe your SU-22 has a damaged extractor that is chipping brass flakes or powder from the rim of the cartridge, and that brass is finding its way into the firing pin channel? I'm still surprised at light strikes. My SU-22 makes VERY prominent strikes on the rim. It darn near punches a notch in the rim! Here's one of those Federal rounds with no primer that I manually fed a couple of other times.
The little SU-22 received a thorough cleaning, and we headed out to the range again today. I did not have any extraction failures, nor any failures to fire. After examining the empty brass, I determined that the firing pin is not hitting the case rim nearly as hard as yours does, so some sort of manufacturing debris may be in the firing pin channel. Later today, I will soak the bolt assembly with solvent, and blow it clean with compressed air. By the way, this little rifle is pretty darn quiet with the suppressor. I will post pics of the SU-22 & suppressor combo later this evening or tomorrow.
It's interesting that a general cleaning seemed to fix the extraction problems. Maybe it was just new and the parts were a bit tight and it still needs to wear in a bit, and cleaning removed some crud that was binding and the lube helped things operate more smoothly. I know my SU-22 started running a lot more smoothly after 1000 rounds or so. I hope you are just having a few minor break-in issues and it just needs a few hundred rounds down range. That's a fun and easy fix. From my perspective, removing about .07" of material from the lower opening on the ejection port greatly improved the reliability. The firing pin pin on the SU-16 has a rubber O-ring and some solvents can deteriorate that part. I don't think there are any rubber or polymer parts in the SU-22 bolt area, but I'd probably use a blast of polymer safe gun cleaner to blow out any debris, followed by compressed air and then some good gun oil like RemOil. I'd blow out the excess oil, too. I like RemOil with Teflon because it leaves a dry film of lubricant that doesn't attract grit. After that, I'd look to see if it's making firing pin marks on the rim like the example picture I showed. If not, maybe post your own picture and ask if others are seeing similar strikes on the rim. Based on other .22s I've shot, my SU-22 seems to have a lot of rim smashing overkill. I hope that means it'd have enough excess energy in the firing pin to provide a wide margin, and even when dirty it'd still be reliable, but that may have more to do with the shape of the firing pin and firing pin channel. Some may be more self cleaning than others? Shooting .22 LR ammo is dirty, but the last time out, my SU-22 ate 250 rounds of Federal ammo without any problems at all. It doesn't feel like it's slowing down or getting gritty. Next time, I'll try to get out early and shoot an entire 525 round box of ammo. If it eats that without malfunctioning, that'll seem reliable enough for me.
It has been a while since I have posted here. :-[ My job has had me very busy since Christmas, but I was able to put two 550 round bulk packs of the Wally World Federals through my little SU22CA today. There were only four failures out of 1100 rounds. Two were failures to ignite, one failure to feed, and one failure to extract. The ignition failures were probably due to lack of primer material, because those rounds fired when they were tried again. The other failures were due to the gun being quite dirty, as they occurred after the first bulk pack, and well into the second - with no cleaning whatsoever. The SU22 provided a lot of fun today, and can tell that it is quite a bit smoother than it was when it came out of the box. I started to develop some skill with the little rifle, and could chew a 2" hole in the target at 20 yards - with no rest, and shooting nearly as fast as the trigger could be pulled. This little jewel is quickly becoming my favorite .22. Experimentation with a lighter recoil spring for use with subsonic rounds & the suppressor will come soon. I did promise to post a pic of the little rifle with the suppressor mounted, and should be able to get out in some nice light tomorrow to take those pics. One more thing - the rear sight needed to be moved all the way to the left to make the point of impact equal the point of aim. I am not worried about this, because it hits dead on now, but just thought I would mention it.
That's a lot of shooting! As dirty as .22 LR ammo is in a blow back operated .22, that's just amazing reliability. My SU-22 smoothed out a lot at 1000 rounds or so. I couldn't agree more.
I have the same problem, only worse. Others have posted that the front sight mount is crooked; I think that I can see it with my rifle, so it's going back to the Shop. When I first shot Su Too, she didn't want to chamber the first round from the mag. After around 100rd, she smoothed right out.
