IWITavor TS12 vs SRM1216 vs KSG

Discussion in 'KSG Bullpup Shotgun' started by Michaeljager, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Active Member

    52
    Jul 11, 2017
    The new IWI bullpup looks pretty cool, straight outta XCOM 2. We don't know much about it yet 'cept for pics, stats, MSRP and a guy shooting it a couple times at Shot.

    IWI has their work cut out matching KSG's trigger. And they are not known for their great triggers. Capacity of TS12 is 15+1. Its a beast tho at 8+ lbs. I wonder what kind of recoil padding it has? It says it has some newfangle on the bolt. I'm sure we will hear all about it. IWI makes reasonably good stuff, hopefully the teething will be minimal. We should see usage stories around by late summer.

    SRM12 is listed at 6+ lbs. Thats a lot lighter! Capacity 16+1. SRM has a fluted chamber and a bit of rail right above the bore which is nice for laser. Its a bit longer than the others as the action isn't as far back. People seem to like it. I like the design a lot! IF you can cope with the rotating mags. Same is true for the IWI. Dunno much about the trigger. Build quality seems fair. Another leg up on IWI is a detatchable mag so you can have a spare.

    KSG: 7 lbs and half the price. That means you can upgrade and/or get a sweet optic and some ammo, etc, for the shelf price of the others. All it costs you is that its not semi-auto gas. Good informational support on fluffing and buffing and some key aftermarket available.

    If I didn't have a KSG I would be drooling alot more at both others. Semi-auto is very desirable especially under stress. But its not without its drawbacks, and obviously KSG is a simpler design. Simple is very, very good.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. 62-10

    62-10 Active Member

    314
    Jan 18, 2015
    I would have preferred a single tube and inertia action with the Tavor12; however, 922r probably precludes a 7 round tube.

    Ever weigh your KSG? Mine is more than 8lbs empty with Sig flip sights, XS reg dot A2 post, AB Arms VFG, factory SPS mount, stainless followers, kydex receiver cover, Carlson Enforcer, & ladder rail cover on the top pic rail.

    The SRM holds no interest for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018

  3. SixPackABS

    SixPackABS Member

    41
    Jan 22, 2018
    Coming from a first time firearm owner it seems like the KSG is easier to operate.
     
  4. GearBolt

    GearBolt Active Member

    192
    Jul 12, 2016
    I'll keep my KSG. I do like the side loading. But honestly. One switch and you have the same number of rounds. Its like that m16 shot gun with the rotating magizing. I see no improvement. They just made a overall same thing as the other guys.

    If Kel-Tec had some minor design changes they truly could make the worlds best combat shotgun. But. I guess i will just continue testing and designing the new furniture kit for the KSG.
     
  5. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Active Member

    52
    Jul 11, 2017
    Well, get your bolt in gear! :yum:
     
  6. FightClub

    FightClub Active Member

    69
    Nov 28, 2010
    My Versa Max Tactical will unload 8 rounds as fast as I can pull the trigger. And it ended up being less than my KSG, once you factor in the mods. I have about equal faith in both, as far as depending on either of them for protection. (That just means I'll take my Winchester over both :D) Having owned a Saiga 12 as well, I can say that some semi-autos are nice, others not so much. And I'll take tubes over box mags any day.

    The IWI may end up in the safe, depending on reviews.
     
  7. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    How sooon we forget:rolleyes:.
    You can put it right next to the UTS-15 you bought...
    UTS15_3.jpg

    What, did you forget that monstrosity?
    UTS15_2.jpg

    It's a fine gun... if you're Schwarzenegger:rolleyes:.
    You can still buy one new, you just have to blow the layer of dust off of it lol.gif .

    Edit: 130 of them on GB now with Zero (0) bids, better act fast!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  8. CommonCents

    CommonCents Member

    76
    Mar 1, 2014
    wow, certainly surprised by the tavor. very tempting, even as a ksg owner. i'll have to see the reviews and wait a bit. if reliable i'd probably lean toward the semi auto.
     
  9. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    88
    Jul 17, 2017
    As ugly and bulky as the UTS-12 is, it still only weighs 7.9 pounds.
    Still, I'll stick with the KSG over the hyper expensive IWI.
     
  10. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    347
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    One thing that's "gotta be" is reliability. I know folks have had reliability issues with the KSG, mostly ammo/chamber related, with some exceptions of course. But I also remember the SPAS-12 which we had many of come into the shop back in the late latter half of the 80's through the 90's. Jam-a-Matic, out of the blue. And when they jammed, they were a real PITA to get going, requiring a decent amount of disassembly and finagling.

    As long as they work, hey... there's room enough in the market to support lots of different shotguns.
     
  11. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    Indeed. Plenty of people bought the UTS:eek:.
    This is probably a better video of the IWI actually in action.

    Why only 6 rounds? huh.gif I'm not rich, but I can hand you a whole box of shells:rolleyes:.
    For an automatic, the Saiga 12 seems to be hard to beat; 7-years ago:
     
  12. GearBolt

    GearBolt Active Member

    192
    Jul 12, 2016
    Yeah yeah. Blame the railroad. These guys brake everything all the time and i sometimes say. "Are you serious? I just spent 30hrs last week fixing that!" They can bend a crowbar in a sand pile.

    Soon. I'll finish the ideas soon. I went to a alum handguard + foregrip mfg. And sat down with them after some emails. We'll see. I didnt give them too much. But we'll see. My other options are cnc shops i use to work with when i did fabrication. And the one was really into the idea.
     
  13. GearBolt

    GearBolt Active Member

    192
    Jul 12, 2016
    This is true. We all in one way or another like what we like. But. Like cars. In the end. They all shoot a 12ga round. Some just do it 15 times in a row with a flick of the wrist. others you drop a box mag 3 times. Or reload tactical 870 style by spitting each 12 round into the breech like an iron man 10 more times. To make 15.

    I think a combinational design of all of these platforms could produce a good firearm. I am still going to design the new covers for the KSG out of Alum and work on a automatic change over mechanism to change tubes. And dink with it. But. I think one thing that i might say is that if we as consumers dont drive the market and mfg's. then we are at the whims of their ideas and products. Its like politics. Out country is run by the people for the people. If the people are involved. But if they get lazy or complaisant and allow politians to speak for them as they choose. You cant complain when you get oboma care or the notverypatriot act.

    If we all pool out ideas at the mfg's. eventually one will listen and incorporate ideas and feed back.

    Otherwise we let the mfg's design guns like this.

    I give you the (Dp12 & uts-15)
    IMG_6215.JPG
    IMG_6216.JPG

    IMG_6217.PNG
     
  14. MadRonin

    MadRonin Member

    77
    Sep 22, 2009
    Got a chance to manhandle the IWI shotgun thing at the Great American Outdoor Show last weekend. It's as butt ugly in person as it is on the Internets. But it actually handles well and the trigger is surprisingly light. Only got to dry fire it, but it was not what I was expecting considering the train wreck that is the Tavor trigger.

    Manipulating the mag tub was a little clunky, but with some range time, it's an easily learned behavior.

    Don't know that I'd buy one at the prices they're asking - MSRP according the guy at the IWI booth is $1500 - but I'd consider a used one for less than $1k.
     
  15. ammoman

    ammoman Member

    5
    Mar 14, 2016
    MSRP is $1,399 but its already showing up on sites for around $1,150. (Oakland tactical, for example)

    While I'm not a huge fan of the way it looks, the dual side loading is the main reason I'm selling my KSG to get one. Loading the KSG for me is not an easy task. I frequently need to flip it over, look for the right placement, and then shove the shells into the tube. And I have been bitten by the sharp edges of the bar that holds the shells into place more than once. When wearing gloves, my gloves have gotten pinched there requiring me to yank them out and damage them.

    My other *minor* complaint about my KSG is racking it. While most of the time its fine, every now and then I short stroke it (not pulling it back that last stiff 1/4" that drops the shell into the carrier). It almost always happens after shooting my 870 Tactical.


    Being able to see the loading port and being able to dual load is awesome! Throw on semi-auto firing (so no more short stroking) and I am sold! Appearances don't matter to me - I'm a function-over-form kind of guy. When I'm shooting, my eyes are on the target, not on the ugliness of my firearm. :)
     
  16. 62-10

    62-10 Active Member

    314
    Jan 18, 2015
    A good VFG would likely solve that issue.
     
  17. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    It's ok, he's ditching the KSG and going to do a great detailed review on the IWI, Right? nod.gif
    We'll wait.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  18. ammoman

    ammoman Member

    5
    Mar 14, 2016
    You bet! As soon as I can get my hands on one!!!

    I tried the VFG, but didn’t care for the way it felt, so I ended up with an angled foregrip. It helped a little, but wasn’t perfect. Looking forward to no more pumping!

    Although that brings up one concern I have - with the mag tubes down low on the TS-12, there is no way to mount any grip on the front. So if the tubes are hard to hold, I’ll be out of luck. Maybe that is why they did a tri instead of quad tube - easier to grip. And since it is just for support, not for cycling the action, it should be okay...
     
  19. 62-10

    62-10 Active Member

    314
    Jan 18, 2015
    They are not all the same, which one?
     
  20. ammoman

    ammoman Member

    5
    Mar 14, 2016
    I tried a couple, but don’t remember which ones (it was over a year ago).