I give up on the PF9
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I have 2 of them. One is mine, one is Wife's. Neither one is fun to shoot as far as comfort. I have used mine for carry and has been reliable everytime I've shot at the range. I find, most discomfort shooting is the trigger which I've thought about getting a new one that is available that many say is much improvement.
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7,876 Posts
I assume you have tried different ammos, cleaned and lubed the PF9, checked the feed ramp for smoothness, checked the extractor and spring for proper function, scanned/felt the rails and grooves for burrs, etc. The obvious things. Some PF9's just do not like 148gr ammo, so if that is what you were using, try some 124's or 115's. Also, if your PF9 is new and not broken in yet, be sure to use FMJ ammo and not some exotic "flying ashtray" hollowpoint that might not feed well.
Try something different as a test:
Hold your PF9 straight in front of you, the traditional "isosceles stance", except bend both elbows a moderate amount, to where you can see a slight angle between your forearm and your upper arm, on both sides. This is a weird stance, I know. Feels like you're doing "the chicken dance". Now as you go to shoot, think about the recoil coming straight back at your chest, not moving upwards, and not rolling the gun in your hands. You'll never be able to control it to make it do this straight back thing, but attempt to, and keep it in your mind (imagine) that you are doing so. You want a firm grip, and both elbows bent. Think recoil as in "pushing straight back at your chest, like a battering ram".
You will feel like an idiot shooting this way. And look like one too. Tough. It's just a test. If your psych will be bruised by shooting like I describe above, then you're really gonna flip out at what I say in the next paragraph.
How does your PF9 shoot now? Is it still doing "failure to ... everything"? If not, you have probably been "limp wristing" the gun before. I know, I know. Macho guys don't "limp wrist". That's only for sissy's, right? But I will tell you, if you have not shot a lot of small lightweight but potent pistols, you are almost surely limp wristing. I don't care if you are one solid muscle from head to toe. And the more experience you've had in the past shooting powerful full sized handguns, the more tendency you have to limp wrist. This is because you can get by with sloppy or poorly developed technique shooting a heavy full sized pistol. The gun will shoot just fine, and you may well be very accurate with it despite the limp wristing that you have trained yourself to do without realizing. But that sloppy technique just does not work with the small lightweight semi-autos.
The goal, if indeed you do find you are limp wristing (even if you won't admit that to others), is not to try and compensate by strangling the poor little PF9 into unconsciousness with a death grip. Work on your technique so that recoil comes as much straight back at you as you can manage. This is as much a mental thing as a physical one.
Another sign that you may be using poor technique with your PF9 is if it is uncomfortable to shoot. When I first got mine, after shooting full sized pistols very well for decades, my shooting hand was going "Ouch, ouch, ouch - get me out of here!" after only 25 to 50 rounds with the PF9. I would be shaking, flinching, staging the trigger, and every other bad thing you could do. Now, after shooting this PF9 for, what, about 8 years now, I find it just fine to shoot. I can put hundreds of rounds through it without discomfort. Sure, it's a snappy little beast, but no longer a painful one.
Proper technique is everything when it comes to small lightweight semi-autos. The PF9 is only about 12 or 13 oz (unloaded) IIRC. If these super lightweights prove to be not suited to you, then next thing would be to move up to a (still small) 9mm in the 20oz range. Like a S&W Shield. Those extra few ounces make a big difference in the sensitivity to limp wristing. And in shooting comfort also.
And get you one of these grip sleeves - they are great and the model 18400 fits the PF9 perfectly!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9MGD1Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Good luck!
Try something different as a test:
Hold your PF9 straight in front of you, the traditional "isosceles stance", except bend both elbows a moderate amount, to where you can see a slight angle between your forearm and your upper arm, on both sides. This is a weird stance, I know. Feels like you're doing "the chicken dance". Now as you go to shoot, think about the recoil coming straight back at your chest, not moving upwards, and not rolling the gun in your hands. You'll never be able to control it to make it do this straight back thing, but attempt to, and keep it in your mind (imagine) that you are doing so. You want a firm grip, and both elbows bent. Think recoil as in "pushing straight back at your chest, like a battering ram".
You will feel like an idiot shooting this way. And look like one too. Tough. It's just a test. If your psych will be bruised by shooting like I describe above, then you're really gonna flip out at what I say in the next paragraph.
How does your PF9 shoot now? Is it still doing "failure to ... everything"? If not, you have probably been "limp wristing" the gun before. I know, I know. Macho guys don't "limp wrist". That's only for sissy's, right? But I will tell you, if you have not shot a lot of small lightweight but potent pistols, you are almost surely limp wristing. I don't care if you are one solid muscle from head to toe. And the more experience you've had in the past shooting powerful full sized handguns, the more tendency you have to limp wrist. This is because you can get by with sloppy or poorly developed technique shooting a heavy full sized pistol. The gun will shoot just fine, and you may well be very accurate with it despite the limp wristing that you have trained yourself to do without realizing. But that sloppy technique just does not work with the small lightweight semi-autos.
The goal, if indeed you do find you are limp wristing (even if you won't admit that to others), is not to try and compensate by strangling the poor little PF9 into unconsciousness with a death grip. Work on your technique so that recoil comes as much straight back at you as you can manage. This is as much a mental thing as a physical one.
Another sign that you may be using poor technique with your PF9 is if it is uncomfortable to shoot. When I first got mine, after shooting full sized pistols very well for decades, my shooting hand was going "Ouch, ouch, ouch - get me out of here!" after only 25 to 50 rounds with the PF9. I would be shaking, flinching, staging the trigger, and every other bad thing you could do. Now, after shooting this PF9 for, what, about 8 years now, I find it just fine to shoot. I can put hundreds of rounds through it without discomfort. Sure, it's a snappy little beast, but no longer a painful one.
Proper technique is everything when it comes to small lightweight semi-autos. The PF9 is only about 12 or 13 oz (unloaded) IIRC. If these super lightweights prove to be not suited to you, then next thing would be to move up to a (still small) 9mm in the 20oz range. Like a S&W Shield. Those extra few ounces make a big difference in the sensitivity to limp wristing. And in shooting comfort also.
And get you one of these grip sleeves - they are great and the model 18400 fits the PF9 perfectly!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9MGD1Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Good luck!
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15 Posts
Thanks for the advise, but I was a Small Arms Instructor in the USCG for 23 years I am sure I was not limp wristing. I have been through Colt and Beretta armorer school as well so I have a good idea about firearms and how they work. I was using 115 fmj and 124 fmj Mag Tec plus Remington 124 FMJ. I did clean and inspect everything. Did the standard fluff and buff, checked the rails everything is good as far as I can tell. I have to go qualify for the Department so I will do some more testing. Thanks for all the advise.
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15,000 Posts
Maxwell, I'm going to try one more time...and I appreciate your experience with firearms, and all the years you put into it.
All that doesn't matter, you don't have years of shooting a PF9 or P3AT...and they're a horse of another color.
Try something posted about above...change your stance/grip just a bit like we say. Try it, what does it hurt just to try it? Nothing lost except some time and a few rounds. We've seen it, we've been there. It's happened to us and it's happened to the techs at the factory. Once you figure it out you'll go to yourself OH! is that all it was! We've seen it so many many times it's almost funny.
The techs at the factory probably won't find anything wrong. More than likely they'll do a "tune up" that's more like a placebo. Polish something or adjust a part...or replace a thing or two. But what DOES work is after you get it back your thinking about what we said and you'll accidently "figure it out." I've personally seen it way too many times.
$10 says anyone of us guys that have been there can shoot your PF9 without a hitch. Without doing anything more than to make sure it's clean and well lubed, we'll adjust our grip/stance just so and empty mag after mag. The guys at the factory can't find anything wrong with most of them, and can't duplicate the problems your having...we've talked to them. Heck, I've talked to them more times than I can remember. They'll shoot mag after mag from a pistol like yours and nothing is wrong, shoots fine.
Of you're right handed...grip the pistol firmly with the right hand, wrap your left hand over the right firmly but comfortably (not a death grip!). Bend your elbows a bit, 10-15 degrees or so. Sort of hunch down into your grip a bit...then LOCK your wrists. And I mean LOCK them, pretend they CAN'T move...don't let them move.
Take up all the recoil in your bent elbows, Like Haertig posted above, use your elbows to take the recoil straight back. Let your elbows work like the way shocks work on your car, flexing with the recoil.
It looks a bit strange and seems stranger. But it does work. Try it please? Don't hurt nothing to try.
And please read this thread linked below....
https://www.thektog.org/threads/limpwristing.235070/
.
All that doesn't matter, you don't have years of shooting a PF9 or P3AT...and they're a horse of another color.
Try something posted about above...change your stance/grip just a bit like we say. Try it, what does it hurt just to try it? Nothing lost except some time and a few rounds. We've seen it, we've been there. It's happened to us and it's happened to the techs at the factory. Once you figure it out you'll go to yourself OH! is that all it was! We've seen it so many many times it's almost funny.
The techs at the factory probably won't find anything wrong. More than likely they'll do a "tune up" that's more like a placebo. Polish something or adjust a part...or replace a thing or two. But what DOES work is after you get it back your thinking about what we said and you'll accidently "figure it out." I've personally seen it way too many times.
$10 says anyone of us guys that have been there can shoot your PF9 without a hitch. Without doing anything more than to make sure it's clean and well lubed, we'll adjust our grip/stance just so and empty mag after mag. The guys at the factory can't find anything wrong with most of them, and can't duplicate the problems your having...we've talked to them. Heck, I've talked to them more times than I can remember. They'll shoot mag after mag from a pistol like yours and nothing is wrong, shoots fine.
Of you're right handed...grip the pistol firmly with the right hand, wrap your left hand over the right firmly but comfortably (not a death grip!). Bend your elbows a bit, 10-15 degrees or so. Sort of hunch down into your grip a bit...then LOCK your wrists. And I mean LOCK them, pretend they CAN'T move...don't let them move.
Take up all the recoil in your bent elbows, Like Haertig posted above, use your elbows to take the recoil straight back. Let your elbows work like the way shocks work on your car, flexing with the recoil.
It looks a bit strange and seems stranger. But it does work. Try it please? Don't hurt nothing to try.
And please read this thread linked below....
https://www.thektog.org/threads/limpwristing.235070/
.
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89 Posts
Hope you can find the issue! I have had 2 PF-9's and absolutely no issues ever! I sold them to move on to another direction. My PF-9 were not fun at the range pistols but were good carry pistols and I had full confidence in them! 2 of my co-workers carry PF-9's. I have quite a few other KT products and very happy with them!
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1,331 Posts
Max,
I too have seen this happen. Gave my PF9 to a co worker to shoot, and it had all the same described issues. Took it back and ran 3 mags thru it, no issues. He was only able to successfully shoot the pistol w the +one mag extension magazine I had.
They are a different kind of pistol, but for concealability and accuracy, I feel like it's one of the best values out there. Once you get this part figured out, plan on the northwood trigger package.
Good luck, and thanks for being a "Coasty"; that's how my gramps got into the navy during WWII.
I too have seen this happen. Gave my PF9 to a co worker to shoot, and it had all the same described issues. Took it back and ran 3 mags thru it, no issues. He was only able to successfully shoot the pistol w the +one mag extension magazine I had.
They are a different kind of pistol, but for concealability and accuracy, I feel like it's one of the best values out there. Once you get this part figured out, plan on the northwood trigger package.
Good luck, and thanks for being a "Coasty"; that's how my gramps got into the navy during WWII.
I started out wondering if I had made a mistake buying the PF9; but after a few years and thousands of rounds thru it, I can say honestly that I made a great choice in the PF9, for a 1 pound, easily concealable single-stack pistol. Here's my thoughts:
A) IMHO, limp-wristing is the biggest issue with the PF9
B) Break-in period - don't say a word until you've run 400-500 rounds through it
C) Fluff and buff - yup, and eat an apple, too.
D) Try different ammo; if you reload, so much the better (mine will eat 124 gn cu plated over 3.2 grains of Clays all day long, as well as Hornaday's Critical Defense Ammo)
E) Definitely go for the trigger mod if you've got big hands; I did the Northway Mod, and the gun is so much more comfortable.
F) Go with the mag extender; it doesn't hurt to carry 8+1 instead of 7+1, and it certainly helps give you better control and grip of the gun.
G) Keep it clean and lubed!
Good luck and happy shooting!
A) IMHO, limp-wristing is the biggest issue with the PF9
B) Break-in period - don't say a word until you've run 400-500 rounds through it
C) Fluff and buff - yup, and eat an apple, too.
D) Try different ammo; if you reload, so much the better (mine will eat 124 gn cu plated over 3.2 grains of Clays all day long, as well as Hornaday's Critical Defense Ammo)
E) Definitely go for the trigger mod if you've got big hands; I did the Northway Mod, and the gun is so much more comfortable.
F) Go with the mag extender; it doesn't hurt to carry 8+1 instead of 7+1, and it certainly helps give you better control and grip of the gun.
G) Keep it clean and lubed!
Good luck and happy shooting!
Hi Maxwell,,, I've had my pf9 for 3 years now and what i've learned is that the fluff and buff is got to be done right! The feed and extraction must shine like the sun. You have to get out all the groves in the feed buff buff buff. I used a dermal tool with a small buffer and any place else you see cross lines in the finish. Got to be smooth. When you buy a Smith or Beretta that is all taken care of for you at the factory. But not so with the PF-9 make it shine then lube...This is just my opinion and it worked for me hope this helps!!
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If this gun is so difficult to make function properly, why bother? There are so many out there that work perfectly right out of the box. I understand that most owners/shooters want to justify their purchase, but how frustrating to not be able to use it for it's intended purpose without using special techniques or making modifications. If it was a new car or motorcycle malfunctioning, you would have it back to the dealer in a flash, demanding that it be made to perform as advertised. I'm being the devil's advocate here, and expressing my view as to what I would expect. I am certainly not as expert as some here state they are, but I know that if I dole out my hard earned $ and don't get the results I was expecting, I too would be disappointed.
Maxwell's, I understand your frustration but please try the sage advice of the friends above AND by all means send it back to KelTec for a tuneup. I did and it was amazing. They are 100% behind you and their product. They polished our the feed ramp and much more and it is he smoothest shooting pistol ever. Spend time getting to know your trigger. I can bring mine quickly now to the break point and then its a piece of cake. You own the best, safest and lightest concealed carry weapon on the market for the price. Be proud of it's American heritage.
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47 Posts
I don't know if my experience is unique, but I did not do anything to my PF9 except clean & lube. I have the +1 mag extensions because it fits my hand better. Once I got past about 200 rounds for break-in I have had no problems at all. I only shoot round nose bullets, both factory and reloads. Same situation with my P32 and my other Kel Tecs for that matter. Guess I'm just a lucky guy!
I complained about what I consider a "design flaw" on the PF9 and got ripped. Glad to see everyone has been reasonably civil with you on your problem. Understandably, there are those who love it but also those who hate it. I have had the same issues as you and in addition, the mag dropped causing a failure to have the next round ready. A simple change in the molding of the grip area would fix it. I had the problem of limp-wristing but took a little focus (the only one I have problems with - because of the short barrel , I guess). Good luck on figuring it out.
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27 Posts
Buy the trigger shoe for it.It makes the trigger wider and therefore no bite. Kel-Tec has them on their website.
My P-11 has the largest magazine for it.
12 rounds of hollow points available.
Also get their stainless pants clip from them and install it
Absolutely wonderful and keeps your pistol ready under a T shirt !!!!!
My P-11 has the largest magazine for it.
12 rounds of hollow points available.
Also get their stainless pants clip from them and install it
Absolutely wonderful and keeps your pistol ready under a T shirt !!!!!
My local gun store is an independent and he swears the PF9 is a good gun but needs breaking of 200 rounds os hardball ammo. It is a self defense weapon and will not ever be a comfortable range gun.
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10 Posts
Before Kel-Tec went to the torx head screw on the extractor it would come loose and cause failure. You have to grip that thing like your holding a rattlesnake. After Kel-Tec sent me the upgraded extractor screw the gun was flawless until I handed it to my cousin's 140lb. nephew to shoot. He limp wristed the gun and failure. I took the gun from him and put another 100 rounds through it without a hiccup. It has worked flawlessly since.
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43 Posts
I haven't read all the posts, so excuse me if I'm repeating something.
Most of the posts I've browsed seem to be addressing the symptoms, not the problem.
As a professional gunsmith, I have worked on the PF-9s and similar designs. It's been my experience that this sort of problem is very often with the extractor and sometimes the feed ramp, esp. on KelTecs. The extractor has a lot of duties to perform and it doesn't take much to cause it to malfunction. I've generally found that properly fitting the extractor will eliminate the problem.
The KelTecs are not finished very well at the factory. Before using one as a carry, it (or any firearm for that matter) should be gone thru thoroughly and tested as much as your budget & time allows. KelTecs usually need a "fluff & buff" to remove burrs and polish certain surfaces such as the feed ramp, sear, etc.
I own two of these and have fitted the extractors and polished the necessary parts. Now they both work extremely well and I have a high level of confidence in them.
Hope this helps out.
Wolfgang
Most of the posts I've browsed seem to be addressing the symptoms, not the problem.
As a professional gunsmith, I have worked on the PF-9s and similar designs. It's been my experience that this sort of problem is very often with the extractor and sometimes the feed ramp, esp. on KelTecs. The extractor has a lot of duties to perform and it doesn't take much to cause it to malfunction. I've generally found that properly fitting the extractor will eliminate the problem.
The KelTecs are not finished very well at the factory. Before using one as a carry, it (or any firearm for that matter) should be gone thru thoroughly and tested as much as your budget & time allows. KelTecs usually need a "fluff & buff" to remove burrs and polish certain surfaces such as the feed ramp, sear, etc.
I own two of these and have fitted the extractors and polished the necessary parts. Now they both work extremely well and I have a high level of confidence in them.
Hope this helps out.
Wolfgang
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