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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I own the original Ruger LCP and an LCP Custom. The Custom is my primary EDC. I've been reluctant to jump on the new LCP II until I have a better understanding of what makes it safe. It is a hammer fired, single action pistol without a manual safety. It seems to me that carrying this gun for self defense is like carrying a 1911 cocked but NOT locked.

You might say the two part trigger (Ruger labels them the "Trigger, Outer", and the "Inner Trigger") is the safety, but I maintain that this design is more like the grip safety on a 1911 (must be depressed before it can fire). Does that mean you could safely carry a 1911 with the manual safety off just because you have a grip safety??

If someone, in this august group, can explain to me why this is a safe gun to carry loaded, I'll rush right out and buy one.
 

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Trigger pull on the LCP II is MUCH longer than your average 1911. The idea is that it'll not only take a sufficient amount of force to pull the trigger, but also a more dedicated and deliberate pull, rather than something just nudging it accidentally.

I had the LCP II for awhile before getting rid of it. My reasons for ditching it had nothing to do with the trigger, but rather the fact that it had some extraction failures that made it unreliable and the blued finish that would continue to rust no matter how much I slathered it in Eezox and carried it in a holster that totally covered the slide - blued guns and I generally just do NOT get along. If you're used to a long, heavy DAO trigger pull like on the older LCP's or similar models, then the LCP II's trigger does seem "scary" by comparison. But if you've shot a lot of other striker-fired pistols, you'll find that the LCP II's trigger is actually no lighter and certainly no shorter than those, and certainly not unsafe to carry ... as long as you use a proper holster, which you should do with ANY pistol.
 

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The LCP II is just as safe to carry as any striker fired gun on the market without a thumb safety, including every Glock and most M&P's etc. They are all single action guns even if the marketing guys play games saying they are 1.5 action or whatever. The last 1% movement of the striker has nothing to do with adding enough energy to ignite a primer and is solely for semantics to please police department acquisition requirements.

No matter what you call the action, they all have a firing mechanism under spring tension ready to ignite a primer if released. They all have much more trigger travel than a 1911 and from the factory they have a pull weight over 5 lbs. They all have some sort of on the trigger safety as well as another internal safety to prevent the gun from firing unless the trigger is pulled. If Ruger used a striker instead of a hammer and called it the LCPs, there would be no concern that the exact same trigger pull was unsafe.

The LCP II has a heavy sear engagement plus a "half cock" notch that will catch the hammer if the sear slips without the trigger being pulled. It has a lightweight inertial firing pin as a drop safety measure, but does not have a direct firing pin block (much like Kel-Tecs).

Is it safe to carry? If you use a holster that covers the trigger, it is just as safe as any similar trigger pull weight striker gun. I have seen posts from blowhards like the Uncle George's holster idiot freaking out because it is a "single action" but if you watch that jack wagon's videos you should spot the big safety issue right away. He draws and handles his guns with his finger inside the trigger guard. If you have the same dangerous habits, then I would agree the LCP II and any striker fired gun is not safe for you to carry. Then again, I would argue that the trigger finger should not only not be on the trigger, it should be outside of the trigger guard at all times until the muzzle is on target. Under stress with adrenaline flowing, the difference between a 5-6 lb trigger and a 8-10 lb trigger is not big enough that I would depend on it.

Likewise, I would not pocket carry one without a holster nor would I do so with a holster that exposes the trigger. Most certainly not with anything in the same pocket. I have exactly the same rules for my p11 and p40 as well as snubby revolvers. In short, in my opinion, any trigger light enough to pull with one finger is NOT heavy enough to rely on as a safety.
 

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Personally, I would not carry ANY gun that didn't have a safety unless it was in a holster custom made for that particular gun. And that holster would have to fully cover the trigger, and at the same time allow for a full firing grip on the butt of the pistol.

For no-safety guns, this rules out generic "small", "medium", "large" holsters, especially the cheap nylon variety. A gun WITH a safety would be OK in a generic holster, from a safety standpoint. But I wouldn't generally carry that combination anyway, due to ergonomic considerations. I see very little use for generic holsters, except maybe for informal carry of the gun you are shooting at the range. For day-to-day concealed carry, generic is a bad choice IMHO. Either the gun doesn't present the same way 100% of the time, or it sinks in so deep that you can't get a firing grip on it, or there is no retention (unless you use the cheap strap that is included), etc. Mind you, there may be some decent generics out there somewhere. But I haven't ever run into one personally.

My daily carry is indeed a no-safety gun. But it is in a custom leather holster made for that gun that makes the overall package safe.

[ When I say "custom", I don't mean "hand made one of a kind". What I mean is a holster "specifically molded for the particular gun it will carry". ]
 

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One thing to point out about leather holsters is to inspect it regularly and replace when it starts to become worn. I just saw pictures of a ND caused by a worn leather holster. Luckily for the guy involved it looked to be only minor injuries but he did shoot his car too.

Using a holster made for the make and model gun is always a good idea. With proper gear and handling I don't see why the new LCP wouldn't be safe to carry. That said I'll stick with my P3at or more often the PF9.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks everyone for your opinions. I'm still not convinced. Isn't carrying a loaded LCP II with one in the chamber like carrying a single six revolver, in a good holster, with the hammer cocked and a round under the hammer? Even if the revolver had an 5 pound trigger, I still wouldn't carry it that way.
 

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Again, the trigger pull on the LCP II is a lot longer than that of, say, the single-action revolver you use as an example. Additionally, a revolver doesn't have the "trigger dongle" nor a firing pin block safety, so the LCP II will not simply "just go off" if dropped, nor if something just happens to snag the side of the trigger. It takes a fairly deliberate pull of the trigger to get the bang to happen, and so long as you carry it in a holster that keeps the trigger securely covered (again, why would anyone NOT carry a gun in a holster?), then yes, it's perfectly safe to carry loaded and chambered.
 

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Thanks everyone for your opinions. I'm still not convinced. Isn't carrying a loaded LCP II with one in the chamber like carrying a single six revolver, in a good holster, with the hammer cocked and a round under the hammer? Even if the revolver had an 5 pound trigger, I still wouldn't carry it that way.
For a frame of reference, what guns do you feel are safe to carry, and what makes them seem safe to you?

We don't all have the same level of personal comfort. Many people won't carry cocked and locked. Many people don't feel comfortable with a striker gun without a thumb safety (hence why it is an option on the M&P). Some people won't pocket carry, some will only carry in a retention holster.

That said, guns in holsters with the trigger covered don't often just go off. Most AD's involve drawing or re-holstering or some other form of handling, and there is usually a finger on the trigger making it more of a ND than AD. The best safety is between your ears. Don't rely on any others to protect you from bad practices.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
For a frame of reference, what guns do you feel are safe to carry, and what makes them seem safe to you?
Most comfortable with single action but I would never carry one unless it was a BUG like the NA Arms revolver. Next would be double action (with a decent trigger), then DA/SA, then striker fired. I put striker fired last even though I use a Glock 26 and a Ruger LC9s because I have had surprise shots go off at the range. Gun pointed at target, firing a little faster than "slow fire", sights not quite on target, Oops. Gun goes off. I know this was probably do to my not being totally familiar with the trigger/reset even though I had a couple hundred rounds through them. I don't like it when a gun goes off by surprise.. :eek:

What makes this order of preferred guns safe to me? First of all I don't want to use a manual safety even if the gun has one. Therefore knowing that I will have to use deliberate and moderate amount of effort to fire the gun, makes me most comfortable. If I'm in a adrenalin filled situation, I don't need an itchy trigger finger deciding when my gun is going to fire.
 

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I prefer pistols without an external safety, that's one
of the reasons why I don't carry a 1911 style pistol.
My preferred pistols are Glock pistols.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pThsdG0FNdc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pThsdG0FNdc[/ame]
 

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Most comfortable with single action but I would never carry one unless it was a BUG like the NA Arms revolver. Next would be double action (with a decent trigger), then DA/SA, then striker fired. I put striker fired last even though I use a Glock 26 and a Ruger LC9s because I have had surprise shots go off at the range. Gun pointed at target, firing a little faster than "slow fire", sights not quite on target, Oops. Gun goes off. I know this was probably do to my not being totally familiar with the trigger/reset even though I had a couple hundred rounds through them. I don't like it when a gun goes off by surprise.. :eek:

What makes this order of preferred guns safe to me? First of all I don't want to use a manual safety even if the gun has one. Therefore knowing that I will have to use deliberate and moderate amount of effort to fire the gun, makes me most comfortable. If I'm in a adrenalin filled situation, I don't need an itchy trigger finger deciding when my gun is going to fire.
Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, including at the range. Including between shots. If you are lighting off rounds before intended, you have poor trigger control. Consider habituating your finger to the frame between shots.

In your adrenaline scenario, having your finger inside the trigger guard makes this happen:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv89_3rrW8Y"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv89_3rrW8Y[/ame]
 

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I carry a Sig 938....I like external hammer fired....I camber a round and lower the hammer....I have one in the camber an a full mag....if I ever have to pull it I just cock the hammer with my thumb....I also have a Beretta PX4 storm compact I can do this with as well but it also works double action for the first round. I keep a .357 mag in my center console in case "it" ever hits the fan while in the car.
 

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Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, including at the range. Including between shots. If you are lighting off rounds before intended, you have poor trigger control. Consider habituating your finger to the frame between shots.

In your adrenaline scenario, having your finger inside the trigger guard makes this happen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv89_3rrW8Y
Keeping your finger "off the trigger" is woefully inadequate when under even moderate stress such as competition. Train to always keep your finger "outside the trigger guard" until on target and ready to fire. Under stress with adrenaline pumping, a 15 lb trigger may feel like a 1 lb trigger. Don't be like that Vehas cop!
 

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Keeping your finger "off the trigger" is woefully inadequate when under even moderate stress such as competition. Train to always keep your finger "outside the trigger guard" until on target and ready to fire. Under stress with adrenaline pumping, a 15 lb trigger may feel like a 1 lb trigger. Don't be like that Vehas cop!
I quite agree, which is why I suggested indexing the finger to the frame so you know where it is at all times. Yeah, language is a funny thing.

I will say, if I had someone on my range and they had their finger on the trigger as they were lining up the sights, and they kept lighting the thing off while wildly off line, I'd bounce them.
 

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Thanks everyone for your opinions. I'm still not convinced. Isn't carrying a loaded LCP II with one in the chamber like carrying a single six revolver, in a good holster, with the hammer cocked and a round under the hammer? Even if the revolver had an 5 pound trigger, I still wouldn't carry it that way.
It really depends on the design. If your hypothetical revolver had an additional safety, such as most modern revolvers, then I don't see why not (the additional safety in revolvers usually takes a form of a transfer bar, in striker-fired pistols it's usually a sliding block or plunger that blocks the striker). I don't know if LCP II does have an additional safety. The original LCP did not, because its hammer was not cocked -- unlike the revolver in your thought experiment.
 
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