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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've put a couple thousand rounds through so far with no issues. Supported accuracy was more than acceptable once the forend was replaced, limited by ammo quality and the nasty trigger. It's fun enough ringing steel that heat becomes an issue--I played around with inner heat shields or just wore gloves until I found the KE arms wrap. Works great but really needs the rail to keep it locked in place. It also smooths over the polymer stiffening rib ahead of the magwell that I've often been tempted to round off.

Finally added the MCARBO kit, which completely transformed the horrible gritty trigger. Just a touch of creep now with a much smoother and lighter break. Should have done this first.

Next up I'll put together some groups and chrono results with various brands of bulk 5.56, maybe even work up a handload. That might seem silly for a cheap plastic gun, but I'd like to know what's possible within reason. Nothing better than a first round impact.

IMG_20200915_083526.jpg
 

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Nice looking rifle.

I was wondering how much the free float hand guard improved your accuracy? Were you able to attain1 MOA with match ammo for instance?

I have the MCarbo spring in mine but not the trigger, nor the Red Lion hand guard. I think I generally get around 2 MOA with 77gr IMI Razorcore OTM ammo (nice ammo) at bench rest. So not great, but not awful.

Might be tough for you to get 1 MOA with a 2 MOA red dot though, I suppose, even with a magnifier added.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It was definitely better, especially against a barricade but I can't really quantify since the handguard was the very first thing I changed.

One of the benefits of the HS503G: the 100yd aiming point is a "0 MOA" chevron, not a dot. It's tiny, and pretty much looks like a dot when unmagnified.

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Yes, nice. I have it similarly on my SU16A with a Primary Arms 1-6X24 with ACSS reticle. The 6 power aids at the 100yd mark if you're trying for precision. At 2 MOA (what I'm getting), I don't think of the gun as a precision rifle of course, but I was wondering if it were suped up more than mine if it could do 1 MOA reliably. I would pour a lot of money into it to accomplish that, but would if it weren't too much money. 2 MOA is good enough for its purpose.
 

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One of the best ways to improve a gun's accuracy is to try different shells until you find the ammo your gun shoots best.

I've taken a old worn out 30-30 that shot 7 MOA and by playing around with different handloads got it down to 2 MOA.

My .300 blk with factory ammo shoots 2 MOA but shoots a .8 MOA group with a handload I worked up for it.
 

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Right, and that will particularly work if the barrel is free floated prior to working up a load I imagine. As it stands, from the factory, this gun will do better with a heavier bullet, like a 77gr over a 55gr due to the 1 in 7 twist, which is why I use Razorcore ammo to test for MOA (not as good as your method, but a step in the right direction).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Only fired a few rounds so far, turned out the new trigger isn't resetting. Odd, since it works fine when cycled manually but I guess I'll have to take it apart and see what I did wrong. Not something you can do in the field with the SU.
 

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It's a Victor Company Titan universal cheekrest.
Looks good, how do you like it? How many spacers did you end up needing to use to get a good height. I've got a Holosun 503cu currently but I don't like the cheek weld even with the low riser.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Two spacers got me a good view through the magnifier (absolute height) while the sloped stock still allows iron sight use in a pinch. Wound up installing permanently with flathead machine screws and nuts. It is very slightly wider than needed to fit over the SU stock, perhaps I could have used a heat gun to tighten it up but didn't feel it was necessary.

I like it, looks decent, somewhat adjustable, and doesn't interfere with anything.
 

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Yes, nice. I have it similarly on my SU16A with a Primary Arms 1-6X24 with ACSS reticle. The 6 power aids at the 100yd mark if you're trying for precision. At 2 MOA (what I'm getting), I don't think of the gun as a precision rifle of course, but I was wondering if it were suped up more than mine if it could do 1 MOA reliably. I would pour a lot of money into it to accomplish that, but would if it weren't too much money. 2 MOA is good enough for its purpose.
I’ve had my su-16c for about 12 years (10 to 12,000 rounds) now, in that 12 years I’m now on my second upper receiver and barrel.
On my first barrel I thought it was just a 2-3 MOA rifle. Then I came into land, and ammo was plentiful.
I found several hunting and target ammo that gave me sub MOA groups, and some good target ammunition that shot as bad as 8 MOA!
Ultimately I settled on Hornady Black 62 grain BTFMJ. It was pretty cheap (compared to target or hunting ammunition) I think I paid like $250 for 400 rounds. And it shot 1/2 MOA!
I had a 200 yard range and I could cover the groups with a quarter, with the exception of the occasional flyer. PROBABLY ME!
Then The rear of my upper receiver cracked off at around 10,000 rounds!
Of course Kel-Tec fixed it no charge. However they used a different barrel with a different twist rate than my vintage barrel.
Now the Hornady black 62 grain shoots about 2 MOA, but their Black 75 grain BTHP shoot about 3/4 MOA.
Any how, today I got to shoot at more than 200 yards for the first time ever! I checked my zero at 200 yards, moved to five hundred yards. Used the BDC on my 1-9 vortex strike eagle. Fired only 5 shots got 4 hits on a 12” plate using plain Winchester M855. Dropped the mike and walked away.
So long story short, my SU-16c has been more than accurate enough if you feed it right!
 

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Thanks for the heat wrap info.
I am using my 16c as my in truck ot car get away gun. So I don't anticipate 100 to 150 yards and my red dot works well for that. Yeah I had the sub2k for a get away gun . Then a light went off with the su16c. Why not have a compact rifle round. It was a no brainer after that.
 

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I’ve had my su-16c for about 12 years (10 to 12,000 rounds) now, in that 12 years I’m now on my second upper receiver and barrel.
On my first barrel I thought it was just a 2-3 MOA rifle. Then I came into land, and ammo was plentiful.
I found several hunting and target ammo that gave me sub MOA groups, and some good target ammunition that shot as bad as 8 MOA!
Ultimately I settled on Hornady Black 62 grain BTFMJ. It was pretty cheap (compared to target or hunting ammunition) I think I paid like $250 for 400 rounds. And it shot 1/2 MOA!
I had a 200 yard range and I could cover the groups with a quarter, with the exception of the occasional flyer. PROBABLY ME!
Then The rear of my upper receiver cracked off at around 10,000 rounds!
Of course Kel-Tec fixed it no charge. However they used a different barrel with a different twist rate than my vintage barrel.
Now the Hornady black 62 grain shoots about 2 MOA, but their Black 75 grain BTHP shoot about 3/4 MOA.
Any how, today I got to shoot at more than 200 yards for the first time ever! I checked my zero at 200 yards, moved to five hundred yards. Used the BDC on my 1-9 vortex strike eagle. Fired only 5 shots got 4 hits on a 12” plate using plain Winchester M855. Dropped the mike and walked away.
So long story short, my SU-16c has been more than accurate enough if you feed it right!
I think they must have begun staking the piston rod/bolt assembly shortly after you bought your SU-16, in order to solve that receiver cracking issue (without that, the bolt could go back further than intended if the piston unscrewed a bit), and the barrels then were 1:8 or 1:9 twist I think. The newer barrels have been 1:7 twist which favor the heavier bullets, just like you experienced. Sub 1 MOA is impressive for it not being free floated (half Moa is crazy good). I think consistency is key, meaning using the same support for the hand guard in the very same way each shot (no difference in pressure on the barrel in anyway shot to shot, etc.) It apparently can be done as you point out. Wouldn't take much variable pressure on the barrel to totally screw it up though, which is what people are reporting when using the built in fold down bipod. I sometimes wonder if just resting the gun on the mag would avoid the barrel deviation issue as a less than perfect make-do solution. Something like the Red Lion free float hand guard is seemingly the best, most reliable route, but I'm reluctant to put more money into a gun I don't intend to depend on using in precision fashion. But...we are all hooked on precision nonetheless.

12K rounds is the most I've heard of going through these so far, though I'm sure there are others who have likely exceeded this. I have viewed the gun as a fantastic packable gun that would be exceedingly handy for unexpected use, but not necessarily for extended hard use, like a typical, well made AR. Your gun probably would have gone longer than 12K without cracking had the rod been staked, so that makes me think this gun can be put through the paces fairly well and last. I really like the design myself, but do think it would be better had they skipped the bipod and done it free floated to start.

Thanks for your report.
 

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I think they must have begun staking the piston rod/bolt assembly shortly after you bought your SU-16, in order to solve that receiver cracking issue (without that, the bolt could go back further than intended if the piston unscrewed a bit), and the barrels then were 1:8 or 1:9 twist I think. The newer barrels have been 1:7 twist which favor the heavier bullets, just like you experienced. Sub 1 MOA is impressive for it not being free floated (half Moa is crazy good). I think consistency is key, meaning using the same support for the hand guard in the very same way each shot (no difference in pressure on the barrel in anyway shot to shot, etc.) It apparently can be done as you point out. Wouldn't take much variable pressure on the barrel to totally screw it up though, which is what people are reporting when using the built in fold down bipod. I sometimes wonder if just resting the gun on the mag would avoid the barrel deviation issue as a less than perfect make-do solution. Something like the Red Lion free float hand guard is seemingly the best, most reliable route, but I'm reluctant to put more money into a gun I don't intend to depend on using in precision fashion. But...we are all hooked on precision nonetheless.

12K rounds is the most I've heard of going through these so far, though I'm sure there are others who have likely exceeded this. I have viewed the gun as a fantastic packable gun that would be exceedingly handy for unexpected use, but not necessarily for extended hard use, like a typical, well made AR. Your gun probably would have gone longer than 12K without cracking had the rod been staked, so that makes me think this gun can be put through the paces fairly well and last. I really like the design myself, but do think it would be better had they skipped the bipod and done it free floated to start.

Thanks for your report.
Yeah I was truly shocked with the accuracy I was able to get out of it. But yes all the shooting was done from a bench rest with sandbags. I’ve noticed changes in point of impact I just from resting the handguard in a different spot. Bipod is completely useless. Resting on the mag has caused a few malfunctions for me but works ok...
I’ve found if you rest the handguard just in front of the mag well on something, anything, I use shooting sticks. But a wall, barrier, I’ve gotten had some sub MOA groups shooting off the bed of a pickup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Only fired a few rounds so far, turned out the new trigger isn't resetting. Odd, since it works fine when cycled manually but I guess I'll have to take it apart and see what I did wrong. Not something you can do in the field with the SU.
Update: after disassembling/reassembling a half dozen times I was never able to get it to reset with the lighter spring. MCARBO responded with some advice but it turned out not to be an installation issue. Reinstalled the original spring and it worked perfectly. The metal trigger is still a great upgrade.
 

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will someone please post a pic of a staked piston & op rod?
 
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