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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been crawling all over this site, and some of the stuff you guys have figured out is down right ingenious. I've been reading about the hammer spring mods with the V pin and firing pin spring mods to balance it. What is the latest thinking about that mod on the P3AT? How many coils off the firing pin spring are you guys using?

I've also seen reference to recoil buffers, but no specifics. Any help there?

David
 

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Do not cut and/or shorten the firing pin spring without performing the other mods that our "Two Pistol Packer" has outlined here: http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1178708109;start=0#0

When you click on the above link you will notice that the first lines begin with the following warning:

CAUTION: THIS MOD IS NOT CONDONED BY KEL-TEC. IF YOU DO THIS MOD, YOU MUST RETURN THE PISTOL TO FACTORY STOCK (REPLACE MODIFIED PARTS WITH FACTORY STOCK PARTS) BEFORE RETURNING THE PISTOL FOR SERVICE.
Altering factory springs willy-nilly can result in either a firearm that is unsafe for you or those around you or a firearm that fails when you need it most.

There are no recoil buffers available for Kel-Tec firearms except for the Sub-9/Sub-2000 folding pistol-caliber carbine and the P3-AT, but the latter are no longer available.

(Edited to reflect correction offered below)
 
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PshootR said:
...There are no recoil buffers available for Kel-Tec firearms except for the Sub-9/Sub-2000 folding pistol caliber carbine.
"BUFFERS" are available for the 3AT-- but sales have been suspended until I find a reliable and dependable KTOGER to take over distibution.

I stopped selling them because I was making so much on these things I had to go up two Income Tax brackets.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1175020076/0
 

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Sorry, I forgot the P-3AT buffer.

- - - PshootR - - -


Nu_Agin_Shooter said:
[quote author=PshootR link=1215237652/0#1 date=1215260221]...There are no recoil buffers available for Kel-Tec firearms except for the Sub-9/Sub-2000 folding pistol caliber carbine.
"BUFFERS" are available for the 3AT-- but sales have been suspended until I find a reliable and dependable KTOGER to take over distibution.

I stopped selling them because I was making so much on these things I had to go up two Income Tax brackets.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1175020076/0



[/quote]
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the warning. I understand the issues with these types of mods. That's why I was hoping someone had already debugged the problem. I don't have a single handgun that hasn't been massaged to take out the attorneys contribution to the engineering, LOL. Some were a snap and some took weeks of work. These micro guns are harder IMO because every movement is so short.

Packer, I see what you've done and that makes good sense. Aside from being safer and eliminating the dryfire problem, it also provides a better firing pin strike right? I sent you a PM about the trigger, etc so we can talk about this when you email me.

NAS, I can't view that thread, probably because my post count is not over 25 yet. I'll have to wait a while, thanks! I would like to try the buffer though. I use them in my 1911 and I like the results on that gun.

David
 

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downhill said:
....I would like to try the buffer though....These micro guns are harder IMO because every movement is so short......

The item that N_A_S mentioned is a hard nylon insert that provides a slide bushing for the recoil rod.  As you noted, with these micro guns there is NO excessive movement nor space available for modifications.   It in No Way is a buffer like those for the 1911.  There are concequences when these are added, since in a normal configuration the recoil spring goes coil to coil.

Since you are aware there was something, you must have read a few past postings.  If you think you want a nylon insert for the recoil springs, I would suggest a search of "nylon washer" in the P3AT section for all post.

to get you started, here is the begining post about them
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172726400/0#0


You may want to look soon as of 7/30/2008 ALL images I posted will disappear (losing internet access provider)
 

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downhill said:
... I'm having a hard time understanding exactly where you are putting it.  ...
The first square sticks to the frame just in front of the magazine well and the exposed axis of the trigger.

Then a strip that covers the square and extends down into the magazine well.

As you can imagine, installing the magazine must be done very deliberetly or you can push the strip into the chamber.

To push the material down for a few seconds to get good contact, I insert empty magazine, then pull slide back all the way, then position a round on the slides breach face and the barrel hood to hold slide back

downhill said:
Thanks JFB,
Boy they didn't spare anything on that spring did they?
I'm convenvied, the spring was designed first to match the requirements for the ammo, then the slide was made as short as possible to accomudate the spring
 

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JFB said:
I'm convenvied, the spring was designed first to match the requirements for the ammo, then the slide was made as short as possible to accomudate the spring
That could be. I'm more inclined to think that it is the result of cramming a 380 into what was designed as a 32.
 

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The spring dimensions (numer of coils and wire diameter) and the lenght of the P32 are just as close.

I don't know about the others guns of GK, but I think he is a design/manufacturing genius the more I examine my P3'3 :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I don't think it was an accident. Whether you are designing a race car or the lightest, smallest gun possible, you do that by optimizing every detail. The details add up up to the end result.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Regarding the washer for the guide rod, is that to prevent wear on the steel hole in the slide when the steel guide rod is used? Also, does this mod work in some guns and not others, or does it cause spring stack in every P3AT?

David
 

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If you go thru the history of the nylon washer you will see there was a period where the slides were being drilled to deep and the metal was being pushed out.

The nylon washer could be fitted to match the bottom of the drilled hole and thus restore the original dimensions.

Spring stack is going to be a problem. The P3AT springs does go coil to coil just as the slide hits the frame, thus with a washer it stacks early and you will get coil jump over and a kinked spring

Since the KT springs are not end ground, I filed mine to make them flat and that relieved some of the stack

if you notice, the slide could be stopped just a little before hitting the frame and still alow a fresh round to load thus a buffer at the end of the frame might help
 

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JFB said:
You may want to look soon as of 7/30/2008 ALL images I posted will disappear (losing internet access provider)
JFB - it should not be too hard to save those images and host them elsewhere.  

A bit harder but still doable could be a global search and replace with path replacements to your new location?

-Scott
 

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I plan to as I make the change over.

You would think the moderator would do that for me ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OK, I see. I'm making phosphor bronze guide rods for my pistol, so hole wear wouldn't be an issue anyway. The frame buffer is something I am pursuing too. I've taken some measurements and there is a way to mount a captured polyurethane buffer between the frame and slide contact. It requires milling off a little bit from the front of the frame and then the pad can slip down between the frame and the plasitic housing My only question is whether a 1/16th inch pad would be enough or I need 1/8". The only difference is how much has to be removed from the frame. I want the new contact point to allow for .010" of compression of the pad for the slide to reach full cycle.

David
 

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I would TRY the 1/16" without cutting any thing of the frame.  If you look at how far the breach face goes past the magazine at full recoil AND the round advancement due to the ejector, I think there is suffecent dwell for the round to come out of the magazine with the slide travel reduced that 1/16".

I tried the sticky neoprine I used for under the barrel lug, but it could not take the impact loads

For your recoil guide rod, look at the end where it makes frame contact, the rod has to tilt during recoil and thus that end is a pivot point and the end would benifit from being radiused
 
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