Hammer Spring Mods

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by downhill, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. downhill

    downhill New Member

    82
    Jul 2, 2008
    I've been crawling all over this site, and some of the stuff you guys have figured out is down right ingenious. I've been reading about the hammer spring mods with the V pin and firing pin spring mods to balance it. What is the latest thinking about that mod on the P3AT? How many coils off the firing pin spring are you guys using?

    I've also seen reference to recoil buffers, but no specifics. Any help there?

    David
     
  2. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    Do not cut and/or shorten the firing pin spring without performing the other mods that our "Two Pistol Packer" has outlined here: http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1178708109;start=0#0

    When you click on the above link you will notice that the first lines begin with the following warning:

    Altering factory springs willy-nilly can result in either a firearm that is unsafe for you or those around you or a firearm that fails when you need it most.

    There are no recoil buffers available for Kel-Tec firearms except for the Sub-9/Sub-2000 folding pistol-caliber carbine and the P3-AT, but the latter are no longer available.

    (Edited to reflect correction offered below)
     

  3. "BUFFERS" are available for the 3AT-- but sales have been suspended until I find a reliable and dependable KTOGER to take over distibution.

    I stopped selling them because I was making so much on these things I had to go up two Income Tax brackets.

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1175020076/0
     
  4. Packer

    Packer Banned

    May 14, 2005
      Hi David. Welcome to KTOG!

    There is no mod to shorten the firing pin spring or cut its coils. This would be too dangerous. The LHS uses completely new and different springs.

    Packer.
     
  5. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    Sorry, I forgot the P-3AT buffer.

    - - - PshootR - - -


    "BUFFERS" are available for the 3AT-- but sales have been suspended until I find a reliable and dependable KTOGER to take over distibution.

    I stopped selling them because I was making so much on these things I had to go up two Income Tax brackets.

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1175020076/0



    [/quote]
     
  6. downhill

    downhill New Member

    82
    Jul 2, 2008
    Thanks for the warning. I understand the issues with these types of mods. That's why I was hoping someone had already debugged the problem. I don't have a single handgun that hasn't been massaged to take out the attorneys contribution to the engineering, LOL. Some were a snap and some took weeks of work. These micro guns are harder IMO because every movement is so short.

    Packer, I see what you've done and that makes good sense. Aside from being safer and eliminating the dryfire problem, it also provides a better firing pin strike right? I sent you a PM about the trigger, etc so we can talk about this when you email me.

    NAS, I can't view that thread, probably because my post count is not over 25 yet. I'll have to wait a while, thanks! I would like to try the buffer though. I use them in my 1911 and I like the results on that gun.

    David
     
  7. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005

    The item that N_A_S mentioned is a hard nylon insert that provides a slide bushing for the recoil rod.  As you noted, with these micro guns there is NO excessive movement nor space available for modifications.   It in No Way is a buffer like those for the 1911.  There are concequences when these are added, since in a normal configuration the recoil spring goes coil to coil.

    Since you are aware there was something, you must have read a few past postings.  If you think you want a nylon insert for the recoil springs, I would suggest a search of "nylon washer" in the P3AT section for all post.

    to get you started, here is the begining post about them
    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172726400/0#0


    You may want to look soon as of 7/30/2008 ALL images I posted will disappear (losing internet access provider)
     
  8. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
  9. downhill

    downhill New Member

    82
    Jul 2, 2008
    Thanks JFB,
    Boy they didn't spare anything on that spring did they?

    David
     
  10. downhill

    downhill New Member

    82
    Jul 2, 2008
    Inetersting JFB, that's more what I was thinking but I'm having a hard time understanding exactly where you are putting it. The mag strip is clear though.

    David
     
  11. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    The first square sticks to the frame just in front of the magazine well and the exposed axis of the trigger.

    Then a strip that covers the square and extends down into the magazine well.

    As you can imagine, installing the magazine must be done very deliberetly or you can push the strip into the chamber.

    To push the material down for a few seconds to get good contact, I insert empty magazine, then pull slide back all the way, then position a round on the slides breach face and the barrel hood to hold slide back

    I'm convenvied, the spring was designed first to match the requirements for the ammo, then the slide was made as short as possible to accomudate the spring
     
  12. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    That could be. I'm more inclined to think that it is the result of cramming a 380 into what was designed as a 32.
     
  13. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    The spring dimensions (numer of coils and wire diameter) and the lenght of the P32 are just as close.

    I don't know about the others guns of GK, but I think he is a design/manufacturing genius the more I examine my P3'3 :cool:
     
  14. downhill

    downhill New Member

    82
    Jul 2, 2008
    I don't think it was an accident. Whether you are designing a race car or the lightest, smallest gun possible, you do that by optimizing every detail. The details add up up to the end result.

    David
     
  15. downhill

    downhill New Member

    82
    Jul 2, 2008
    Regarding the washer for the guide rod, is that to prevent wear on the steel hole in the slide when the steel guide rod is used? Also, does this mod work in some guns and not others, or does it cause spring stack in every P3AT?

    David
     
  16. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    If you go thru the history of the nylon washer you will see there was a period where the slides were being drilled to deep and the metal was being pushed out.

    The nylon washer could be fitted to match the bottom of the drilled hole and thus restore the original dimensions.

    Spring stack is going to be a problem. The P3AT springs does go coil to coil just as the slide hits the frame, thus with a washer it stacks early and you will get coil jump over and a kinked spring

    Since the KT springs are not end ground, I filed mine to make them flat and that relieved some of the stack

    if you notice, the slide could be stopped just a little before hitting the frame and still alow a fresh round to load thus a buffer at the end of the frame might help
     
  17. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    JFB - it should not be too hard to save those images and host them elsewhere.  

    A bit harder but still doable could be a global search and replace with path replacements to your new location?

    -Scott
     
  18. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    I plan to as I make the change over.

    You would think the moderator would do that for me ;D
     
  19. downhill

    downhill New Member

    82
    Jul 2, 2008
    OK, I see. I'm making phosphor bronze guide rods for my pistol, so hole wear wouldn't be an issue anyway. The frame buffer is something I am pursuing too. I've taken some measurements and there is a way to mount a captured polyurethane buffer between the frame and slide contact. It requires milling off a little bit from the front of the frame and then the pad can slip down between the frame and the plasitic housing My only question is whether a 1/16th inch pad would be enough or I need 1/8". The only difference is how much has to be removed from the frame. I want the new contact point to allow for .010" of compression of the pad for the slide to reach full cycle.

    David
     
  20. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    I would TRY the 1/16" without cutting any thing of the frame.  If you look at how far the breach face goes past the magazine at full recoil AND the round advancement due to the ejector, I think there is suffecent dwell for the round to come out of the magazine with the slide travel reduced that 1/16".

    I tried the sticky neoprine I used for under the barrel lug, but it could not take the impact loads

    For your recoil guide rod, look at the end where it makes frame contact, the rod has to tilt during recoil and thus that end is a pivot point and the end would benifit from being radiused