Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
226 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here's a Facebook post I thought you'd like:

Bill Horvath
August 23, 2015 ·


This could happen. Again ..........
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control:
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control: From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established
gun control in 1938: From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and
others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and
exterminated.
------------------------------
China established
gun control in 1935: From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964: From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
---- ------------- -------------
Uganda
established gun control in 1970: From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956: From 1975 to 1977, one
million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
and exterminated.
-----------------------------
56 million defenseless people were rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control!
------------------------------

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens
save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only
the law-abiding citizens.
With guns, we are 'citizens'; without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WW II, the Japanese decided not to invade America because they
knew most Americans were ARMED! Gun owners in the USA are the largest
armed forces in the world!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun-control message to all of your friends.

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in
defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more
important than either.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES A GUN TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT ISSUES AND TRAINS EVERY ADULT IN THE USE OF A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment! If you are too, please forward this.

If you’re not a believer, please reconsider the true facts. This is
history; not the BS that's being shown on TV, sanctioned by our
illustrious leaders in Washington.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,726 Posts
This is the counter point that I ALWAYS hear:

In 1997, as a response to the 1996 Dunblane massacre, Great Britain instituted egregious gun control and confiscation. Since that date, the British government has systematically rounded up and murdered... ummm... Zero?
===============
In 1996, as a response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre, Australia instituted egregious gun control and confiscation. Since that date, the Austraial government has systematically rounded up and murdered... ummm... Zero?
Be prepared to answer this.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
So , in two cases the government has failed to exterminate anyone , as of yet. I just don't have the faith in government that many folks do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,703 Posts
Counterpoints: Did the gun control and confiscation in Great Britain and Australia result in a decrease in homicides? It didn't, so what is the reason to advocate for it? No net positive, but several net negatives in other countries that have gone the gun control/confiscation route. How do you advocate for something that produces no positive results, at best neutral results (more correctly termed "no results"), yet often times leads to negative results in the majority of (but not "every") other places?

This is the counter point that I ALWAYS hear:

In 1997, as a response to the 1996 Dunblane massacre, Great Britain instituted egregious gun control and confiscation. Since that date, the British government has systematically rounded up and murdered... ummm... Zero?
===============
In 1996, as a response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre, Australia instituted egregious gun control and confiscation. Since that date, the Austraial government has systematically rounded up and murdered... ummm... Zero?
Be prepared to answer this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,794 Posts
Counterpoints: Did the gun control and confiscation in Great Britain and Australia result in a decrease in homicides? It didn't, so what is the reason to advocate for it?
SWITZERLAND ISSUES A GUN TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT ISSUES AND TRAINS EVERY ADULT IN THE USE OF A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
I can understand GB's anti-gun mentality. They've always been about safety for everyone
quickkiss75.gif
.
When the Germans invaded in WWII, they found that their entire populace was disarmed:eek:.
We (the USA) started collecting up anything we could spare and shipping it to them.
You'd think that would be a lesson, but it's still a "gun-free" utopia to this day:flower:.
The one that puzzles me is Australia. Even today, the vast majority of the country is like our old west. Deserts, dangerous creatures and primitive 'live-off-the-land' conditions.
I know they didn't have a 2A in their constitution so it only took one good mass-shooting to get them all disarmed. Today, any thug with a gun gets anything he wants and the best they can do is throw a shovel at them. Sad.
(Ever notice in the movie "The Road Warrior", that the only 'firearm' in it is the sawed-off double-barrel that doesn't shoot?)
Switzerland has it dialed in. Always has. Give everybody a gun and bad-guys evaporate.
Strange that the "anti-gun-crime" people never study the winner of that contest:rolleyes:.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,726 Posts
So , in two cases the government has failed to exterminate anyone , as of yet. I just don't have the faith in government that many folks do.
Counterpoints: Did the gun control and confiscation in Great Britain and Australia result in a decrease in homicides? It didn't, so what is the reason to advocate for it? No net positive, but several net negatives in other countries that have gone the gun control/confiscation route. How do you advocate for something that produces no positive results, at best neutral results (more correctly termed "no results"), yet often times leads to negative results in the majority of (but not "every") other places?
Are you misunderstanding and think that I'm advocating for?

Nope.

I'm telling you, from personal experience, that this is the reply you will get if you use the OP in conversation with a gun-grabber.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,703 Posts
Are you misunderstanding and think that I'm advocating for?
I think you're misunderstanding me, not the other way around. You said that people need to be ready to address the specific counterpoint you presented that the anti's might bring up. I gave a way to address the anti's on that. I wasn't countering you, I was talking about countering the counterpoint that you said we should be ready to handle. I was presenting one way in which we might be ready to do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
Here is a Famous Quote that I feels promotes Anti Government Control :eek:ops!: I mean Gun control
untitled.png
. To put simply I prefer to be a Citizen rather than a Subject . :trend:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,726 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: haugrdr

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
Let me bring your attention to the real issue my friends. This must be stopped before we relive tragedies of the past. the time for action is NOW! :sarcasm:
assault_pressure_cooker_apc.jpg
boston-bomb-attack.jpg
contact_your_legislators_and_demand_action.jpg
feinstein-pcooker.jpg
mqdefault.jpg
3f937401b53bbda3de8b8024521dc725.jpg
the veracity of this quote.

assault_pressure_cooker_apc.jpg
boston-bomb-attack.jpg
contact_your_legislators_and_demand_action.jpg
feinstein-pcooker.jpg
mqdefault.jpg
3f937401b53bbda3de8b8024521dc725.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
Here is something I found quite interesting. Yet another reason to Protect the second. I have heard that the birth of the Shillelaghs came from the opposition to an English law Forbidding the Irish to keep and bare arms. ( Sound familiar ) They used this club and disguised it as a mere walking stick. Please check this out as well . An interesting site describing what some people really think of the Potato Famine. http://www.irishholocaust.org/britain'scoverup Its quite interesting and I may say eye opening.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,726 Posts
Here is something I found quite interesting. Yet another reason to Protect the second. I have heard that the birth of the Shillelaghs came from the opposition to an English law Forbidding the Irish to keep and bare arms. ( Sound familiar ) They used this club and disguised it as a mere walking stick. Please check this out as well . An interesting site describing what some people really think of the Potato Famine. http://www.irishholocaust.org/britain'scoverup Its quite interesting and I may say eye opening.
You heard categorically wrong.

First, let's talk about the Shillelagh. What you should know is that the word is actually the name of an Irish oak forest that the British defoliated for their building projects. When an Englishman saw an Irish man with his oak walking stick, he called it "Shillelagh" because of the relation to the oak forest. In the native language it was called something else, such as "bata" (which means "stick"). Second, the Irish banded into "gangs" called "Factions." Factions would frequently have fights and mass brawls for, effectively, entertainment purposes. These fights would nearly always include stick fighting (wrestling, fist fighting, kicking, flails, etc.). Many (most?) Factions would have a man specifically tasked as an instructor for stick fighting. The use of a walking stick as a fighting stick was common and well known. Further, not just common and well known among the Irish, but, frankly, among EVERYONE at the time. The most famous and well know is probably the French systems collectively now known as la Canne. But Englishmen had plenty of cane fighting too. Often they English used an adaptation of Singlestick training, which used a stick as a training method for basket-hilted saber, broadsword, and cutlass. So, no, Irish stick fighting had nothing to do with British weapons confiscation and using the cane as a fighting stick was hardly a particular secret. Heck, it shows up in period artwork and political cartoons:
https://www.google.com/search?q=iri...hUKEwj2m72IxPzVAhVI4oMKHS6cCGUQsAQIJw#imgrc=_

Next, as far as the "Irish Holocost 'coverup'," well... It's actually fairly well known and documented. The Great Potato Famine is hardly a secret, nor was the abuses of English "Absentee Landlords" to Irish farmers. Again, it shows up in period social sources such as newspaper articles, artwork, and political cartoons.





https://www.google.com/search?q=pol...AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=877#imgrc=9epaqdlpTn85VM:

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
  • Like
Reactions: haugrdr

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
I have no way of knowing who said what over a hundred years ago, but what I do know is , The only reason to disarm a man to to force him to do something you couldn't force him to do if he was armed. That is and always will be true.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,726 Posts
I have no way of knowing who said what over a hundred years ago
Sure you do. It's pretty easy to look up these days. Finding "fake quotes" is easier than ever.

That is and always will be true.
What I know is that if we advocate for something and use information, quotes, statistics, or 'facts' which turn out to be false, even if we honestly believed them to be true, it will get found out and we lose credibility. We will be labeled as shills, unthinking ********, uneducated boobs, who can (and should) be safely dismissed and ignored.

In this environment of fake news, we MUST be certain that every piece of minutia we present is 100% correct and fact checked.

The good news is that friendly forums, such as this one, are the best place to find an error and correct it before we present it to the world at large.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
So , it's a case of my source is better than yours? I've seen history rewritten just in my life time. I can only imagine what happens in several life times . But for the most part I agree with you , I belive your heart is in the right place. You are just more trusting in your fellow man than I am.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,726 Posts
So , it's a case of my source is better than yours?
No. My source is accurate and vetted.

I've seen history rewritten just in my life time. I can only imagine what happens in several life times .
If you are willing to put in the time, you can find out what was being said and written at the time. I've done it a lot in, particularly in reference to historic Boxing and the weapon called a "slungshot." What I've found is that "history" was "rewritten" some times, often not deliberately so. But if you are willing to put in the effort, even an amateur can follow the bread crumbs. There's no reason on God's green earth why anyone with access to archives on the internet need to remain ignorant.

I belive your heart is in the right place.
My heart has nothing to do with it. My mind and the evidence are in the right place.

You are just more trusting in your fellow man than I am.
I have no idea what you're talking about.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
No problem on my end, you will continue to believe as you do and I will as well . Isn't it great that opinions vary and we both can have one ? I believe very little of what I read on the Internet no matter the source. Nothing I said was intended as an insult and I'm sorry if it came across as one . And with that I'm done with this topic. I hope you have a great day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
You heard categorically wrong.

First, let's talk about the Shillelagh. What you should know is that the word is actually the name of an Irish oak forest that the British defoliated for their building projects. When an Englishman saw an Irish man with his oak walking stick, he called it "Shillelagh" because of the relation to the oak forest. In the native language it was called something else, such as "bata" (which means "stick"). Second, the Irish banded into "gangs" called "Factions." Factions would frequently have fights and mass brawls for, effectively, entertainment purposes. These fights would nearly always include stick fighting (wrestling, fist fighting, kicking, flails, etc.). Many (most?) Factions would have a man specifically tasked as an instructor for stick fighting. The use of a walking stick as a fighting stick was common and well known. Further, not just common and well known among the Irish, but, frankly, among EVERYONE at the time. The most famous and well know is probably the French systems collectively now known as la Canne. But Englishmen had plenty of cane fighting too. Often they English used an adaptation of Singlestick training, which used a stick as a training method for basket-hilted saber, broadsword, and cutlass. So, no, Irish stick fighting had nothing to do with British weapons confiscation and using the cane as a fighting stick was hardly a particular secret. Heck, it shows up in period artwork and political cartoons:
https://www.google.com/search?q=irish+stick+fighting+cardinal's+lambs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2m72IxPzVAhVI4oMKHS6cCGUQsAQIJw#imgrc=_

Next, as far as the "Irish Holocost 'coverup'," well... It's actually fairly well known and documented. The Great Potato Famine is hardly a secret, nor was the abuses of English "Absentee Landlords" to Irish farmers. Again, it shows up in period social sources such as newspaper articles, artwork, and political cartoons.





https://www.google.com/search?q=pol...AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=877#imgrc=9epaqdlpTn85VM:

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
.
I will Simply answer this in this way. Watch This. :gl:
Then Your a Martial Artist Correct? Look up Irish Martial arts.
There are a few you may like.
Did you even Look up the Site I posted above? If not Please View It.
I will end By Saying Relax Professor . Its a Thread not a political Debate. I could go all through the internet Finding Tons of facts to show either point. Chill.:cool:
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top