Great Chicken test- Sabers and Buffalo Bore

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by gatorhugger, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    The Set up-

    2 leg thigh back combo stacked on top of each other. 3 inches of meat and small bone. On top of 2 inches of ziti. 4 wet books under to stop bullets. Left side of box is for Buffalo bore Gold dots. Right side is for Remington Golden Sabers.
    Phot of Entry by Sabers, Second photo showing exit into second piece.. Recovered after blasing through 2 inch phone book, showing 3 holes, and into last book. Total Penetration 9.5 inches. Excellent penetration and expansion. Need more?

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    Buffalo Bore Gold Dots, pretty hot load, snappy, entry holes, top piece of meat shows power, split meat on entry, second piece showing severe wounding after 3 shots. Penetrated only into the first inch of top book. Total penetration 6 inches. Not sure why the rib tests show so much penetration. I am not finding it at all. These rounds act like a frangible. BIG WOUND CHANNEL, below average penetration, rounds will always lose mass.
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    You decide. For me I would not use Buffalo Bore Dots exclusively. If you use them I would stack them with FMJ or Sabers.
     
  2. Rubb

    Rubb Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    Interesting.

    Now. Pour 1 jar spaghetti sauce into box and place in oven
    at 350 degrees and bake for 1 hour.

    I wouldn’t worry about the lead content as it contains less than some toys ;D
     

  3. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Tasty indeed. Actually to clarify, the BB act not like frangibles exactly, wrong term, more like Triton Quik shot, it dumps energy quickly and powerfully and shreds into several pieces. You can see the food blown apart in the inside of the box. If it hits heavy bone like in my roast test, then it will completely break apart.
    I wouldn't trust my life on the penetration on these alone.

    I don't think I noted it but regular speer gold dot did pretty well, penetrated another inch over BB, expanded well, and held together good. But it's lighter and the mass is not close to the sabers so I cannot imagine a scenario why anyone would chose it over sabers.

    Federal hi shoks which is just your basic hollowpoint went through everything, and was not recovered, no doubt no expansion but great penetration.

    I have tested roasts, chicken, wetpaks,and bottom line it's hard to beat sabers. Haven't done the DPX but what can it do that sabers cannot? For a 380 round it looks like a winner!
     
  4. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    The lineup

    Speer gold dot on left, sabers in the middle, Buffalo bore on the right.

    Sabers weight, penetration, expansion are pretty awesome.

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  5. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007
    Only thing I read that the Sabers don't reliably open out of the P3AT, you obviously didn't find this to be true.

    Tom j.
     
  6. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    All rounds shot were with a p3at.

    (Which functioned flawlessly as usual. I don't know why some people have such bad luck with the guns. I have owned 2, and both were great.) I also own an lcp I left at home, I like shooting the keltec.
     
  7. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Also look closely at the picture of the phone book with 3 holes in it close together. The saber rounds were already open upon entering, and still went another 4.5 inches. Impressive.
     
  8. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007
  9. finnfur

    finnfur New Member

    295
    Feb 5, 2008
    I think you have confirmed what I felt was the load for the P3at. Mine has been stacked with GS for some time.
    SABOR Thanks for the test info.
     
  10. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Nice info GH, thanks. It would be really nice to see DPX in the same tests as the Sabers as they have consistently done better in more controlled tests but there is no doubt, I would not want to get hit with the Sabers!

    -Scott
     
  11. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    I see something significantly different from the rib tests - the material inside the BG. Gold Dots are designed to penetrate through clothing, then open up when encountering flesh. That's exactly what you want in a bullet design in order to  increase the diameter of the wound path.

    At full expansion, they will stop quickly when encountering phone book (or bone) material - unlike the less expanded Gold Saber rounds. But, you were actually there looking at the results - is this what actually happened, or not? I'm saying that the gold dots were fully expanded on hitting the phone book whereas the gold saber were not, and that's why the gold saber achieved greater penetration (at the cost of expansion). Please correct me if this is not right  :)

    In your next test, I might recommend a foot of ziti, or perhaps nasty discarded internal organs from your free meat source - better still. With real guts in the path, you'll see plenty of penetration with BB Gold Dot AND full expansion. Hopefully, someone will have sent you some DPX to try too, but I suspect the DPX design of playing middle-field. That is, not opening up upon entry, and only opening up near the end so as to give the impression that they were fully expanded from the git-go.
     
  12. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    The DPX is absolutely the one round I want head to head with Sabers. I am aching to shoot some bird with that one. I've seen other tests but I want to do it myself. When I see with my own eyes those Corbons blow the Sabers away is the day I will change. It will be a good shooting, The battle royal of the two 380 heavyweights. However, I Dont have the bullets and don't have an extra $30 at the moment for some DPX since I just spent about $200 on Rangers for my nine. Sucks to be broke. :'(

    But I am comfortable carrying the Sabers for now, they perform extremely well on meat. I got 5 in the gun along with a couple of BB dots just for the heck of it.
     
  13. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    As I mentioned earlier and as you can see in the shot of the phone book, the sabers were fully expanded after leaving the Ziti. Same as the Dots. 3 inches of meat and thin bone and 2 inches of ziti were enough to open both rounds. Which it should!
    That's five inches of meat, bone, and loose wet material. If a round won't start opening by then it might as well be a FMJ. Measure a man's chest, I want if fully open by 5 inches and then go another 4 if needed. That my friends is the best performance you can ask for in a 380. I think my test was valid and as realistic as any gelatin tests or ribs with dry plaster behind it.
    You got meat simulating muscle, small bones to break through, loose wet ziti consistent with organs. The phones books were just there to stop the rounds after going through the other material. I'm not saying it was a lab test and cannot be improved upon, it's just backyard testing, but the results were consistent with the other test I made with these two bullets.

    They Sabers went another 4+ inches after being FULLY EXPANDED. The dots went in 5 inches and stopped at the first tougher obstacle. Same thing they did in the roast test. Which tells me that after going through meat and "Tissue" and expanding, the sabers had retained a lot more speed to keep pushing a fully mushroomed round through 3 more wet books. They start out much slower but maintain their speed consistently.

    So the Sabers expand greater, they penetrate much deeper, they weigh more which is good if encountering heavy bone. What they don't do is create a big wound channel in the first few inches, and they dont shed their jacket leaving 70 grains here and 10 there and 20 there. You get a lump of lead at the end of that 9.5 inches.

    If you weight the pluses and minus I don't see how Saber doesn't win hands down against Dots. Next up- DPX.
     
  14. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Ok, well, you were there - I wasn't. I just have no faith in phone book paper results. The material matters in tests like this, and paper always favors lesser expanding bullets. Your results do give me an idea for my next test, though. I'd like to see how bullet expansion changes as it penetrates the material. So, rather than using a solid block of ballistic gell, I'll put a sheet of black paper every 2 inches so that the shape of the bullet outline can be more visible. Hmmm, gotta think about that some more...
     
  15. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    This is an easily duplicated test, go buy $5 worth of thigh quarters and 6 pounds of ziti, sauerkraut, Beef tripe, kidneys,whatever. Stick it in a box and shoot the heck out of it. Recover bullets, wash and photo.

    I place no faith in phone books either, or wetpaks, or gelating, or 4 jugs of water. I like meat and filler. The books were just there as a backstop to stop and recover the expanded slugs. The fact that the Sabers could barely be stopped after 4 books and the dots barely dented one book cannot be ignored.

    I know you like the BB, I wanted to love them to after hearing of the rib tests, but I just don't see it in my testing. You're up my friend. Next test is yours.
     
  16. lagerbrewer

    lagerbrewer New Member

    174
    Dec 20, 2007
    I have some DPX gatorhugger. How many do you want for your next test?
     
  17. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007
    I could send a couple of the Cor-Bon 90 gr. +P I told you about should have them within a few days according to the Sportsman Guide. This seems like a winning combination. Give us an idea of the test you would be performing.

    Tom j
     
  18. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    PM sent to all requesting their favorites tested. Hope all get here by next Saturday. I'm going to change it a bit per Wheelguys request next time. There is going to be more filler and tripe added under the birds. Anxious to see DPX against Sabers since those seem to lead the voting as the most popular 380 rounds.
    Also would like to try the 380 rangers as well since that is my 9mm carry round. ( I retired my 124 +p's HST and +p gold dots after both got smoked pretty well by 147 grain subsonic talons. Well in honesty the HST's are pretty good stuff but the talons edged them) I have heard the 380 rangers are underperformers but would like to give them a shot(pun)

    For the 380's it is going to be hard to beat the Sabers, but may the best bullet win.
     
  19. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Sounds great - shooting through guts instead of paper is a test I believe in. Suggest you use a plastic trash bag to line the box so all the goo doesn't weaken the cardboard. May make it easier to clean up too, although locating the bullets by feel is a bit tricky in such murky media. I raise my glass of tripe, and toast to the success of the test :cool:
     
  20. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    FYI

    a link to this post has been added to the VIP stickies at the request of Bobo