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I'm still wet behind the ears with my new .380 and I've read all the ammo ballistic tests posted here, mouseguns, etc. and I have a question. I'm sure in all my reading that it was stated that Cor-Bon 90 gr. JHP is +P ammo. I'm also sure that I read somewhere you were not suppose to use +P in a P-3AT. Nowhere on the box of CorBon I'm looking at does it say P+, only 380 Auto gr JHP. My problem is I don't remember where I got this info. It could have been from a reply or the KT Bible. I read too much material and confused myself. :)
Can someone help me out here?
 

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AFAIK, there is no such THING as .380 +P ammo. Some standard ammo IS hotter than others though, and some manufacturers have HYPED their ammo as +P.

But you should  NEVER use Mag Safe ammo in a P3AT.

Packer.
 

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http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=179428&t=11082005#enalarge

It's not +P unless specified, Buffalo Bore makes .380 +P, and is not recommended for a P3AT. But due to liability and manufacturers, ammo companies specify +P.

The Cor-Bon's work in my Walther PPK/S, as well as my P3AT, also Speer Gold-Dot, and 102 gr. Rem. Golden Sabers, which I load to carry.

You can also check out ableammo.com, sportsmanguide.com, midwayusa.com, and find plenty of reviews that include the Cor-Bon rounds.

Good Luck. Post a picture of your .380 we all love to see them.

 

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Hey TwoPistolPacker, what is a "hotter round" classified as? "Hype" is dangerous for an ammo manufacturer, and that pesky false advertising can lead to lawsuits. If a pistol manufacturer's owners manual states do not use +P ammo, it does apply, and should be followed.


380 Auto +P

Printed Order Form

Item 27A/20: 100gr. Hard-Cast FN @ 1125 fps 280 ft. lbs Per Box of 20
$19.94
Order Now!
Item 27B/20: 95 gr. F.M.J.-F.N @ 1125 fps 267 ft. lbs. Per Box of 20
$19.94
Order Now!
Item 27C/20: 90 gr. Speer Gold Dot J.H.C. @ 1175 fps 276 ft. lbs. Per Box of 20
$19.94
Order Now!

The 380 auto inhabits a valuable and useful place in our society, mostly because of the easily concealable, tiny pistols chambered for it. HOWEVER, because of the very limited size of the cartridge, it is plagued with limited power and therefore most of the existing ammo in 380 auto suffers from not being reliable as a man-stopper. We’ve studied and played with nearly all of the existing available 380 ammo and find it wanting as a reliable means of self defense, especially against a large, insane, drugged up/pain free, determined attacker.

Here’s the problem. The current 380 auto frangible ammo delivers a large amount of surface trauma, but lacks serious penetration. For example, if you shot me or another sane man in the face with modern frangible 380 ammo, it would blow off a big portion of my cheek and send a few teeth down my throat, I would undoubtedly fall to the ground in shock and pain, but I would be very much alive and functional if I could get past the shock and pain as that frangible bullet would have stopped some where inside my face, never making it to my brain. However, if you shot a drugged up maniac in the face with that same frangible 380 ammo and blew half his cheek off, he would keep right on coming because he is insane and is not thinking like you or I. Plus, he is likely pain free and fear free and wont know that half his cheek is missing and if he did know, he would not care. So whatever 380 ammo you shoot him in the face with, had better go through his face and blow his brain stem out the back of his head, because only a CNS (central nervous system) hit with a 380 is going to stop him. Likewise, a torso hit to the sternum needs to penetrate deep enough to blow all the way through his spine in order to shut him down spontaneously. If you fail to shut him down instantly, you and your loved ones are going to have to find a way to survive while you wait for him to bleed out and pass out. The best chance of survival for you and your family is to shut down the attacker instantly. So, we’ve designed a few 380 auto +P loads to keep you and your loved ones alive under the worst of scenarios.

This 380 Auto+P ammo will better all American made 380 Auto ammo by 150 fps to 200 fps in all bullet weights we make. This is a serious improvement in this typically anemic cartridge. This 380 auto+P ammo is more powerful than the typical 38SPL ammo made by most American ammo makers and you’ll get 7 shots of it in a small/flat/light weight 380 versus 5 shots out of a bulkier 38 SPL J frame revolver. Additionally, with the 380 you’ll get much faster reloads and the little magazines are flatter than a speed-loader used for a J frame.

1. Item 27A/20 is a 100gr. HARD cast bullet with a flat nose. It is traveling over 1,150 fps out of my 3.75 inch BDA (Browning Double Action). We’ve used a flash suppressed powder for all three of our 380 auto loads so that you wont be blinded by your own gunfire if you have to shoot in the dark and since around 95% of all civilian shootings in America occur in low light, the chances that your own gunfire will blind you while you are trying to save your life, are good—we’ve eliminated this variable by using flash suppressed powder. We’ve also chosen a flat nosed solid bullet. The flat on the nose ensures that the bullet will cut/smash its way through flesh and bone and do much more destruction than typical round nose FMJ bullets. Round nosed bullets tend to slip and slide through matter, doing little damage as opposed to a flat nosed bullet. The flat nose not only wounds much more than a round nosed bullet, but it actually keeps the penetration straight and thus deeper. Notice the below velocities recorded from my personal 380 auto pistols. These are real world guns and thus the speeds are realistic and not exaggerated speeds produced from laboratory test barrels. What you see with Buffalo Bore Ammo, is truly what you get in the “real world”, where it matters. You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load. If you are worried about over penetration with this load, DON’T! You chose to carry a tiny under-powered 380 auto pistol and the trade-off is that you are now going to have to stay alive with that pistol and over penetration will be the least of your worries if you end up needing this gun to save yourself or your family.



1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel--- 1160 fps
2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1149 fps
3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1072 fps
4. Keltec---1061 fps



2. Item 27B/20 is the very same load as 27A above, but it uses a 95 gr. FMJ-FN (Full metal jacket-flat nose) bullet. We designed it for folks who simply don’t like hard cast bullets. Although it is 5 grains lighter, it is moving a tad bit slower than the 100gr. hard cast bullet.

There is .380 +P out there.
 

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adamsesq said:
No doubt there are mfgs who are saying "+p" but the big problem is that there is no SAAMI standard for it like there is for other calibers. It can be anything, or nothing.

-Scott
"Granted the SAAMI numbers aren't there for the .380" The "normal" pressures with a lighter bullet is the slippery slope advertising is on. Different brands of propellant, bullet type, and someone somewhere has the numbers for the .380, to classify them as +P.

I admit marketing has to make one product seem different and "better" than another, if its labeled +P like Buffalo Bore Ammo is, it's a "hot" round, and therefore won't go in any of my .380's.

Splitting hairs over fps. and penetration don't matter when shot placement does. A well placed .25 can be lethal, but I won't have one. But I do practice alot. And I think we would all agree that practice, drills, and more practice can make all the difference. ;)
 

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I believe this the scoop on .380 +P ammo (comments welcome)…

Most, if not all guns and ammo manufactured in the U.S. are made to American National Standards Institute and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (ANSI/SAAMI) specifications.

The ANSI/SAAMI (usually referred to as SAAMI) specifications for guns and ammo give upper limits of pressure in Pounds per Square Inch (PSI) for each cartridge size. To date, there has never been a limit set by SAAMI for .380 +P ammo.

Below is an ANSI/SAMMI chart that lists most of the common semi-automatic handgun sizes.


ANSI/SAAMI Pistol Pressure Specifications
Maximum Average Pressure in Pounds per Square Inch (PSI)

.32 ACP----------20,500
.380 ACP---------21,500
9 x 19 mm-------35,000
9 x 19 mm +P----38,000
.40 S&W---------35,000
10 mm-----------37,500
.45 ACP----------21,000
.45 ACP +P-------23,000

Generally speaking, +P is about 9 -15% above standard, and +P+ is about 18 -25% above standard.
============================================

As to what ammo is safe to use in a P3-AT…

Kel-Tec says, “The functioning of the mechanism greatly surpasses all applicable SAAMI safety standards.”

Even so, according to most experienced P3-AT owners there are three types of ammo to avoid:
1)  MagSafe ammo (not to be confused with MagTech). MagSafe also has a warning on their box not to use it in a P3-AT. There have been reports of “kabooms” with this ammo in P3-ATs.
2) Steel cased ammo. There have been reports of “kabooms” with this ammo in P3-ATs.
3) Aluminum cased ammo. There have been no reports of “kabooms” with this ammo in P3-ATs as far as I know. In fact, many P3-AT owners including yours truly use CCI Blazer aluminum as regular range ammo. But do so at your own risk.

Kel-Tec and many experienced P3-AT owners say that overpressure ammo should only used in limited quantities. It can cause excessive wear on the gun, thereby requiring more maintenance and possibly a shorter usable life.
 

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IMO, shoot whatever you want.

if you want the mysterious and somewhat mythical 380 +p+++++++ super +p+ then by all means go for it. it is afterall your weapon, and you can shoot in it whatever you desire.

go for all the google searches, books, ask advice and argue. it makes no difference. it is your gun, treat it how you want.

All I know is I have confidence in what I carry, and you should have confidence in what you carry too.
 

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CorBon used to sell its .380ACP 90gr Traditional JHP as "+P". While they realized there was no +P standard for .380, they claimed it was simply to denote "hotter than normal" ammo, which it certainly was. CorBon eventually joined SAAMI, and that is when they apparently stopped using the +P moniker - probably a bylaw or some similar restriction. I don't think they changed the load itself, just the way they labeled/marketed it.
 

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twyacht said:
"Granted the SAAMI numbers aren't there for the .380" The "normal" pressures with a lighter bullet is the slippery slope advertising is on. Different brands of propellant, bullet type, and someone somewhere has the numbers for the .380, to classify them as +P.
I believe that's your answer right there. Isn't "+P" a SAAMI designation and as such bears a documented and measurable difference in the pressure standard to which manufacturers may build to? A "+P" load is not simply a cartridge that exceeds standard pressures, it is a cartridge that exceeds standard pressures up to a specified limit.

Anything designated as "+P" for which there is no published SAAMI pressure is just a wildcat cartridge at best or some BS load that doesn't even exceed standard SAAMI spec's.
 

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cigarman said:
[quote author=Two Pistol Packer link=1214694891/0#1 date=1214698069]AFAIK, there is no such THING as .380 +P ammo. Some standard ammo IS hotter than others though, and some manufacturers have HYPED their ammo as +P.

But you should  NEVER use Mag Safe ammo in a P3AT.

Packer.

Sorry, but there are several types of 380 +P  here is another one:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=550134[/quote]

There may not be SAMMI satandards, but if it is loaded 15-25% over then it it is practical to call it such. Would you rather they not and take a chance at what may happen?

BTW, I have used Santa Barbara ammo which is pretty hot in my P-3AT with no ill effects. I also use +P in my 38 special airweight. Not a steady diet, but a few defensive rounds.
 

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"Satandards"  ::)
Couldn't resist!  ;D

cigarman said:
[quote author=cigarman link=1214694891/0#12 date=1214969651][quote author=Two Pistol Packer link=1214694891/0#1 date=1214698069]AFAIK, there is no such THING as .380 +P ammo. Some standard ammo IS hotter than others though, and some manufacturers have HYPED their ammo as +P.

But you should  NEVER use Mag Safe ammo in a P3AT.

Packer.

Sorry, but there are several types of 380 +P  here is another one:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=550134[/quote]

There may not be SAMMI satandards, but if it is loaded 15-25% over then it it is practical to call it such.  Would you rather they not and take a chance at what may happen?

BTW, I have used Santa Barbara ammo which is pretty hot in my P-3AT with no ill effects.  I also use +P in my 38 special airweight.  Not a steady diet, but a few defensive rounds.
[/quote]
 

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