Glock-17...please help.

Discussion in 'Other Guns' started by Detman101, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. Detman101

    Detman101 Active Member

    57
    Apr 30, 2017
    Afternoon all,

    I've owned and shot my Gen-2 S2000 for the past year and she's like a best friend to me. I can shoot her at 5 yards and group an orange sized set of holes. I can shoot it at 25 yards and do the same. I can grab it without aiming and get within 1-2 inches of the target at 5-8 yards.
    I would take her everywhere I go if I did'nt live in the communist state of Maryland.
    But, things being as they are...

    So I recently decided to get her a little sister, a Glock-17.
    I have taken her to the range 4 times and shot at 5-yards, 8-yards, 10 yards...and I cannot shoot this gun! I have only ever shot a Beretta 92fs (years) and a Glock-19 (once).
    I can only describe the Glock-17 as....violent.
    Where my S2K is smooth with a little kick and I can fast-fire it accurately, The Glock-17 is shaky, the trigger is catchy, the recoil is disturbing and unless I strongarm it, I cannot get any kind of accuracy at any range. When I death-grip it, I can get a melon sized set of holes...but my arm, back and side start cramping up from the extreme muscle usage.
    The trigger actually abrades my fingertip and I've got callouses from playing guitar on my right hand fingers!! I haven't felt soreness in my index finger like this since I started playing fingerstyle guitar over a decade ago.This handgun is the exact opposite of the smooth, dapper, flowing perfection that my S2K is. It's like going from a straight-razor to a butterknife. I dont' see how people are accurate with these guns at any distance. At this rate I could only kill something that was within 3 yards of me. Thats fkn pathetic...
    At this point I'd be better off throwing the damn gun at the target.
    :poop::gaah::wall:

    Would you recommend lessons?
    Are there "Glock Handgun" lessons in particular?...Because I never had these issues with the Beretta 92FS. Do I need to watch someone else shoot it? I've tried three stances (Weaver, Isoceles and C.A.R.) and none seem to be comfortable or impart greater accuracy for me.
    I really want to learn this gun because it matches my S2K that I absolutely love...but so far, it's getting to the point of depressing me how inaccurate it is in my hands.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for any advice,
    Lost in Md
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  2. lklawson

    lklawson Well-Known Member Supporter

    Oct 13, 2009
    Huber Heights, OH
    Is the pistol new or used? What's the pull weight on the trigger?

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     

  3. Detman101

    Detman101 Active Member

    57
    Apr 30, 2017
    The pistol is new.
    I do not know what the poundage on the trigger is.
     
  4. animalspooker

    animalspooker Member

    42
    Feb 20, 2012
    Have you ever shot a handgun before? Shooting a 9mm through a shoulder mounted firearm is day and night compared to a handgun. It's shaky because you don't sound like you're used to shooting a handgun. All I can tell you is....practice, practice, practice. There is nothing wrong with your G17. They may be the highest selling 9mm handgun of all time. You have to hold them very tight for a number of reasons. One being the gun will not cycle the next round in unless you have a firm grip (called limp-wristing).

    Most who shoot the 9mm will tell you it is relatively mild coming from a gun the size/shape of the G17. If you think that's violent, go to the range and borrow someone's KT PF9. You just need to get used to shooting a handgun, its a totally different animal from your S2K.
     
    Detman101 likes this.
  5. VegasSub2K

    VegasSub2K Well-Known Member

    451
    Feb 11, 2016
    Another consideration for your issues is that Glocks have a distinctive grip angle on them that the 92fs doesn't have (don't know, never shot one). I own several handguns in various brands and I love my Glock 17 and shot it well out of the box. The issue I had with Glock was the different grips. I hated the finger grooves in the Gen 4 and it was uncomfortable for me to shoot. I ended up with a new Gen 3 and love it. My advice is the same as animalspooker, practice, practice, practice. If you still cannot get to liking it, rent one of the other generations of Glocks and see if they fit you better. Hope our advice helps.
     
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  6. animalspooker

    animalspooker Member

    42
    Feb 20, 2012
    Glocks definitely have an angle grip that puts your point of aim a little higher than most guns, but I like this as it helps me to acquire the front post faster than with most handguns.
     
    Detman101 likes this.
  7. dred

    dred Well-Known Member

    175
    Feb 10, 2018
    Gulf Coast Texas
    Hmm ... an alternative solution is out there for you. Although I have a lot of respect for Glocks, I do not shoot them. You don't have to either.

    Kel Tec can fix you up with a multimag grip and mag catch that will feed your Subby from Beretta 92 mags. You have other options, but you have already mentioned success shooting 92s, so ...

    Then, you'll get to enjoy Glock's easy resale feature. I will tell you that my friends which chose to compete with their Glocks all swapped out to aftermarket triggers and aftermarket sights.

    It sounds like you are frustrated by Glocks quirks - most that shoot them well learned to get past and through the quirks.
     
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  8. steve76

    steve76 Active Member

    210
    Dec 13, 2012
    Ferndale WA.
    What's your experience with handguns? I've shot all my life private and military. I have 2 G17's, gen. 2 and 3. Compared to most 9mm with exception of something in 1911 style, very smooth and accurate. Violent in my opinion is my PF9. As far as lessons, take a good handgun self defense course and you will learn a lot about all points of shooting.
     
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  9. tx-rvr

    tx-rvr Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2004
    Abilene Texas
    What bullet weight are you shooting in your firearms? 147 gr. +P hollow points may sound real nasty but if you can't hit with them 115 gr. ball will penetrate far enough to hit important areas. JMHO YMMV. ;););)

    Steve
     
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  10. Detman101

    Detman101 Active Member

    57
    Apr 30, 2017
    Thank you all for your wisdom and advice. It sounds like I have "new gun owner blues" and practice is the key. I am going to register for a handgun proficiency course this spring and get to understand this spunky lil chica. I also think I will need a better trigger, one like my sub2000.
    I have only ever shot a Beretta92fs and a Glock-19 before I got my gen3 Glock-17.

    I will keep at it and put more range time in with it and take a course this spring. That should help...
     
  11. 62-10

    62-10 Well-Known Member

    417
    Jan 18, 2015
    My Gen 2 G17's have pretty mimimal recoil with 124 grain +P's...
     
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  12. steve76

    steve76 Active Member

    210
    Dec 13, 2012
    Ferndale WA.
    Glock has been making handguns for decades and IMHO, out of the box, one of the best trigger systems on the market in comparison to others. Last I looked at Glock trigger specs, out of the box 4.5-5 lbs. pull weight and safety feature you can rely on. Shoot it stock then make some other mods but IMO, would not touch any of the safety mechanisms other than fluff and buff. If something happens as an accident and someone injured or killed, one of the 1st things a prosecutor is going to look at is the gun to see if any mods may have been added and who did the mod. I've carried Glocks for years, 17, 23, 27 and most recent G30s but as I have a hip problem and am in my 70's, will be looking to switch to Keltec P11 which I ordered last weekend but do not have yet. Trying to get as much weight off my strong side as possible and still have something with good fire power and capacity.
     
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  13. gordon11

    gordon11 Well-Known Member

    Dec 30, 2007
    I'm not a Glock guy but I've never had trouble shooting them accurately and I've always found their 9mm recoil to be relatively mild. And this is despite the fact that I just can't stand those big ol blocky grips. I have 2 suggestions: Consider that it could be the newness for you and give it another try. Rent some other potential little sisters to see if you like one of them better. Glocks are really solid guns with good customer service, so I'm hoping it works out for you. Keep us informed.
     
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  14. Detman101

    Detman101 Active Member

    57
    Apr 30, 2017
    Thanks for the advice!
    I went at it again yesterday with Winchester ammo and yelling myself to "just be comfortable and have fun"...

    Big difference!!

    This gun likes Winchester ammo and keeping to the basics without being rigid with nervousness is key!

    At 8 yards I had melon and orange size groupings on the target points! I KNOW that I was holding the gun wrong and way too tightly last time! I relaxed and did what was comfortable for me while still holding the gun well...and BAM...shots on target instead of "bullet spray".

    With the advice given here, and switching to Winchester ammo...I think things are going to work out fine. And that handgun recoil, while new, is a really interesting tactile feedback. For a few fun shots I had fun just watching the movements of the gun when I fired it. We definitely got closer...
     
    850sub likes this.
  15. VegasSub2K

    VegasSub2K Well-Known Member

    451
    Feb 11, 2016
    The bad news now is that you will want some of their other models. The G19 is the next one down, the the G43 for CCW carry. Good luck!
     
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  16. pacman225

    pacman225 Member

    32
    Apr 7, 2014
    Michigan
    Most of my guns are Glocks. I shoot them really well. I like their simplicity. I would recommend that you just practice some more with it before giving up on it. We've had several new shooters qualify with a Glock 22 during the last 6 months with hardly any issues. Just keep shooting it. Watch your grip, stance, trigger, etc, etc. I'd start at about 4 yards and nice and slow work on trying to get your best group possible. Then move back to about the 7yd, then 10, then 15. The grip angle is different, especially if you're used to shooting other guns. Just take your time and practice.
     
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  17. darkwriter77

    darkwriter77 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2011
    Apache Junction, AZ
    Traits of a typical factory-stock Glock:

    1. It's ugly;
    2. It's got the ergonomics of a 2x4;
    3. It WILL cause "Glock knuckle" if you grip it correctly and fire enough rounds;
    4. It has a weird grip angle and a heavy, creepy trigger that have a bit of a steep learning curve to get to where you can shoot it well;
    5. It WILL feed, fire, and eject pretty much any ammo you give it, and as long as you do your part, it WILL shoot accurately ... but the "doing your part" thing is NOT easy.

    Some learn to love the above. Some just hate them and never get past it. Others just accept them for what they are - traits of a TOOL - and they just work with what they've got, because they have to, and because it works.

    I DO NOT like the G22 that I've been issued. I would prefer to shoot and qualify with my personally-owned G19, which is an actual option, but I'm going through the hassle and literal pain of learning to wield the G22 effectively. Why? Because I know that if I can learn to shoot a gun that I DO NOT like and that IS NOT easy to shoot accurately, then it'll be that much easier for me to shoot a gun that I DO like and already is easy for me to shoot.

    Practice, practice, and practice some more. The G22 is the same size as the G17, but the snappy recoil makes it that much more of a challenge to shoot accurately (because you're constantly fighting the urge to flinch in anticipation of each shot), so the fact you have a lesser-recoiling G17 means you've got like half the challenge to overcome. I know people dismiss the validity of a lot of what you see/hear on YouTube and the Internet as a whole, but believe me, there is a LOT of good info out there, especially with regards to tips on marksmanship with pistols. I'm in the midst of going through my department's firearms course (no classes this week due to Christmas), so FWIW, I can at least offer the following things I've learned:

    1. A solid, proper, and FIRM grip is absolutely MANDATORY on these pistols ... and that darned grip angle requires a VERY specific hold to tame it;
    2. A smooth trigger PRESS is almost as important, although a secure enough grip can (at least to some degree) help to cover up for sloppy trigger control;
    3. Unless you modify the trigger housing with a file or Dremel (undercut/round the trigger guard), using a proper grip means that you WILL develop a sore middle-finger knuckle - either embrace it and build the callous, wear some kinda glove or knuckle protection, or modify the frame as needed to work around/past it;
    4. The factory sights aren't the best - the front site is FAT and so you barely have any light on either side of it with a perfect alignment to gauge your windage - but they do at least work ... especially if you just take a Sharpie the rear sight and black it out entirely;
    5. There's a bajillion accessories out there for the G17, so you can do all kinds of things to lighten/smooth the trigger and whatnot, but it's still a striker-fired design and it'll never have a short, light, single-action trigger like a 1911 or a nice revolver, so know and embrace its limitations. It's made to go bang and put holes in things at 25 yards or less (ideally 10 yards or less) - it does just that, no more and no less.

    Regarding the grip, specifically: It's not so much about death-gripping it as much as HOW you grip it. The best example I've heard of is to imagine wringing out a wet towel and turning your hands inward so your palms go up. Align your hands as shown in the pic below, and do that:

    [​IMG]

    With your strong hand, get as high up on the tang as you can, get your index finger on either the middle of your fingertip pad or close to the distal joint (depending upon your finger strength/trigger pull weight); with your support hand, rotate your wrist forward to really point with your thumb and get high up on the frame, apply the actual GRIP with your fingers, and make the most CONTACT with the frame as you can with your thumb and heel of your palm. A bit of overhand torque/cant with the support hand helps lock in that elbow, and DO NOT lock your strong arm elbow out fully - bend it juuuuust a bit. Isoceles or Weaver or whatever (I tend to shoot somewhere between the two) doesn't really matter much, just don't blade yourself fully sideways like you're in the 1800's and holding your horse with your off-hand.

    I used to shoot consistently straight-left with every darned Glock for some reason. After nailing down my grip and trigger control, which is VERY hard to do on a stock Glock, I'm FINALLY getting my shots to consistently go where I want. I'm nowhere near a "master" level with it by any means, but I'm definitely WAY better now than when I started, and passing qualification is no longer something over which I'm losing any sleep. :)

    Again, not a lover of Glocks, but they are literally the AK-47 of semi-auto pistols: ugly, basic, uncomfortable, and rather crude, but about as reliable as a hammer. And if you can learn to shoot that sucker well ... heck, anything better will shoot like a darned laser for ya' after that. ;)
     
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  18. pacman225

    pacman225 Member

    32
    Apr 7, 2014
    Michigan
    Lots of good advice.
     
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  19. jonnin

    jonnin Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2010
    Ill take a risk and advise you to draw back and punt. Sell the glock -- its value from NIB should not be far off its slightly used value, they retain value well. Then visit the range with some buddies and try out a host of 9mm pistols to find some you CAN control, and from there get a feel for a style you like and feel comfortable with. You can grip it different, you can tamper with it, you can try lighter ammo in it, but at the end of the day, the 17 is a difficult to control gun for a lot of people.
     
    Jake likes this.
  20. mtn_chef

    mtn_chef Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2014
    nc mountains
    ...before I sell the glock, maybe you should see if your still shooting the beretta well? You are may be blaming the tool as opposed to the carpenter. Just saying... if it's been a minute or two since you've been shooting pistols there's lots of aspects of this getting old stuff that makes consistency difficult. eye sight, hand strength, injuries etc.... and remember marksmanship is perishable. If you ain't exercising it, them muscles will atrophy and no longer co-operate as we wish. Ask me why I suck with a bow and no longer shoot large caliber weapons....
    don't give up, go shooting that G17 with your most observant friend...no telling what they see, that you don't....