Gen 3?

Discussion in 'KSG Bullpup Shotgun' started by MedicineRattle, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. MedicineRattle

    MedicineRattle Member

    36
    Mar 28, 2017
    Seattle-ish
    Was surfing some online site or another and they were showing KSGs labeled as "Gen 3".

    One thing I noticed not in the FAQ (or, what I could tell, it was semi broken at the time) is a list of differences between Gens 1 and 2, and any approximated cutoff date or serial # for the change between 1 and 2.

    Now that there *might* be a Gen 3, if there is, I'm curious about what has changed from 2 to 3, as well as cutoff date or serial for changes. Any cumulative knowledge we could gather on changes and approximate times generation changes flipped might be good for us to start gathering; this could come in handy later if we can identify upgraded parts that can possibly be retrofitted on to earlier units which might improve reliability or performance (assuming, of course, those parts would even be available individually from Kel-Tec).
     
  2. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    319
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    AFAIK, there are the first few prototypes that went out to "testers" and a few media types. That evolved into the item that was pre-production, shown at the SHOT show where the notorious and dread "trigger reset" issue was hoopla'd into gun history. That was corrected into a released product. They have a product manual and such for the _trigger-reset-corrected_ KSG. I call that Gen 1. Then they had a bit of a PIP moment, redesigned the cartridge releases and feed system a little, added windows to the mag tubes, changed the action release mechanism... and some other small changes. For a long while, those were actually shipped with the "Gen 1" manual (which was incorrect for the release of the model). Those PIP KSGs are still current as far as I can tell. Call those Gen 2 - since they're the second iteration of the released KSGs. But... you might call the prototypes Gen 1, the first release Gen 2 and the current Gen 3. What's in a name? Dunno.

    The current KSG works pretty well... with the occasional sticky chamber (still) due to phosphate (Parkerizing) build up. Very easy to polish that out and get a slick chamber. Shotgun chambers are not critical like rifle chambers, so there are no worries about going too far in polishing, unless you've got two left feet for hands (no malice toward any disable d person with that last remark).
     

  3. MedicineRattle

    MedicineRattle Member

    36
    Mar 28, 2017
    Seattle-ish
    Thanks for the reply, CharlieB, apoliogies for the late reply of my own (was off in Vegas, but we can't talk about that). I saw another "Gen 3" advertised for sale while I was on my lunch break today. Nothing from the outside screams "different", as I'd expect not to see. Merely curious about what's changed, what (if anything) is "better" or "improved", if any of those items may improve the ones already in our hands.
     
  4. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    319
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    The only thing that has changed is the integrity of the sellers, playing "can you top this!" (and get away with it). They'd advertise Gen 5 if they thought folks would buy the story, and do so in hopes of getting sales for the "newest and greatest" model. KT doesn't use "generation numbers".
     
  5. MedicineRattle

    MedicineRattle Member

    36
    Mar 28, 2017
    Seattle-ish
    True, they don't use Gen #s, but we know there's a 1 and a 2, based on some parts changes. A few threads have owners discussing their guns not matching the exploded diagram in the manual. The manual was later updated, so even if there are no Gen #s from KT, there are at least 2 different versions of the KSG.

    Given that there are no Gen #s, the question remains: Is there a third variant of the KSG, what's changed, and are there improvements owners of previous versions may want to seek out? There were no stated changes when the second variant came out, nothing in the manual indicating a 2nd version. EG, I know mine is 2nd based on internal changes from what owners have described in their early models (which matched early manuals), and I know my manual matches mine, so mine is clearly later in the second-variant run. Changes have occurred at least once; I'm curious if another round of changes have gone in, and if they fix anything we might want to be aware of.
     
  6. haugrdr

    haugrdr Super Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Jan 4, 2008
    Daytona Beach
    Kel Tec makes changes and updates as they are needed, it may be a torque spec here-a screw there-then a new trigger part. 2 weeks later they may change something else. Month to month there may be dozens of little changes...it's a continuous thing with them. That's why the factory really doesn't have or use a generation number. They will sometimes, like when the Gen2 sub2000 came out. It had a ton of little and larger changes all released at once. But again, they went right back to small updates and changes after the big release. If they were to have a new Gen number after every change, we could be on Gen314 with the subbie already.

    If you compare 2 KSG's built a month apart, you probably won't notice or see any differences. But I'll practically guarantee the factory made some kind of change between the two...without any announcement that they were done.

    The only way of really knowing is to call the factory, but even the one you talk to may not know about changes introduced on the floor.
     
  7. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    50
    Jul 17, 2017
    Like most manufacturing companies today, Kel-Tec seems to be using the standard of "On the Run-correction".
    That is, they only stop production of a product completely so they can change over to a new product, or a "New-Improved" version that has significant changes.

    In most cases, when a problem shows up a "fix" is designed and they simply incorporate it into running production by stopping to install one part and start installing the new part.
    Usually, in the case of a firearm, only the company can tell you at what serial number the fix was incorporated and they seldom give it a "generation" or other identifier.

    In KT's case, like most other companies the fix just appears in the production run, and these fixes can be added often.

    One reason for doing it this way is because if a company announces "Gen 2" many customers will assume there was a problem with "Gen 1" and demand either a new gun or to have the older gun upgraded.
    In many cases there WAS a problem, but often it's just an upgrade to make it better, not necessarily to correct a defect.
    If there was an actual defect a ethical company will either recall the gun or offer to correct it on the customers gun.
    I seem to recall that Kel-Tec did offer to upgrade early guns because of customer problems.
     
  8. haugrdr

    haugrdr Super Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Jan 4, 2008
    Daytona Beach
    Must be an echo in here...... :yahoo:
     
  9. BlakeHanson

    BlakeHanson Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2015
    Wait! Mine's a Gen309! go crazy.gif
    I must sell it at once and buy a Gen314:gaah:. $1000 is a good price if you can find one since they are nearly non-existent doh.gif .
    All KSG's that are earlier than Gen314 are hereby declared to be junk and must be disposed of. Good luck to any of you selling a model earlier than Gen308:eek:!
    You'd be lucky to get a hundred bux for it:rolleyes:.

    ...on second thought, mine runs flawless nod.gif .
    And isn't that what I really wanted:D?

    (anybody want to buy a Gen1 Fidget-Spinner? The new ones just came out and they have sound! emo12.gif )
     
    haugrdr likes this.
  10. CharlieB

    CharlieB Active Member

    319
    May 25, 2014
    Florida
    Mines a Gen 45.1 and I'm lovin' it.....

    Seriously, the CURRENT production of the KSG has remained the same for well over three (or more) years. The various and less than scrupulous FFL holders selling KSGs are plying your "want the latest and greatest" when they say Gen 3 or whatever.

    No matter what they say, its the current production.

    OTOH.... they "may" be trying to offload some older stock, check those serial numbers before you plunk down the ol' casheroonie!
     
    haugrdr likes this.