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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Howdy everyone, longtime member here who just got back in the fold with a new 9mm black M&P (since converted to S&W 59) Sub 2000.

I noticed that the trigger has a distinct "2 stage" quality to it in that after the takeup (which fully returns if you let off) there's a significant amount of creep followed by increased force and almost no movement when it breaks. It appears that the 90 degree corner of the sear is contacting a concave curved part of the hammer. As you squeeze the trigger it takes a fairly small amount of effort to slide that edge along the curved part of the hammer until it hits the flat section of the hammer. At that point, there's contact between the wide flat section of the sear with the wide flat section of the hammer and effort increases. It looks like maybe only 1.5mm of flat section on the hammer. Anyway, I polished the surfaces with Mother's Aluminum Polish and it reduced grittiness by a lot and effort by a little.

Here's some pics:

I ordered a spare hammer and sear from K-T before I messed with the ones that came with the carbine so here's a comparison of unpolished versus polished:



Here's some annotated pics showing what I believe is going on:





At first I thought this 2-stage feel was something hanging up between the disconnector bar and the plastic grip halves but after the creep happens you can let up and feel the trigger moves freely, the sear is just MOSTLY disengaged from the hammer. I would not be comfortable carrying it around in this state since drops or bumps could potentially make the hammer fall at this point.

Fun fact, you can see the sear and hammer behavior quite clearly when you have the safety removed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This seems to behave similarly before and after I polished the trigger and sear, it's just a little lighter and smoother now. Here's a vid of the behavior showing the takeup then the creep then I let up then takeup again and firing:

 

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I also put mcarbo springs and trigger in mine. Mine did have the two stage feel but now it just hits the wall and pulls through it ok with no second wall feel. If I do stop in the middle of the pull the sear will just stay at that position.
 

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Part of the weird trigger pull, at least in my case, was that the trigger itself contacts the trigger guard before the trigger breaks and the gun fires. So the trigger pull would stiffen up and I had to actually overcome the spring on the trigger guard a bit...

I filed the trigger down a tad so that it never makes contact with the trigger guard and the trigger feels a LOT better now...
 

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Howdy everyone, longtime member here who just got back in the fold with a new 9mm black M&P (since converted to S&W 59) Sub 2000.

I noticed that the trigger has a distinct "2 stage" quality to it in that after the takeup (which fully returns if you let off) there's a significant amount of creep followed by increased force and almost no movement when it breaks. It appears that the 90 degree corner of the sear is contacting a concave curved part of the hammer. As you squeeze the trigger it takes a fairly small amount of effort to slide that edge along the curved part of the hammer until it hits the flat section of the hammer. At that point, there's contact between the wide flat section of the sear with the wide flat section of the hammer and effort increases. It looks like maybe only 1.5mm of flat section on the hammer. Anyway, I polished the surfaces with Mother's Aluminum Polish and it reduced grittiness by a lot and effort by a little.

Here's some pics:

I ordered a spare hammer and sear from K-T before I messed with the ones that came with the carbine so here's a comparison of unpolished versus polished:



Here's some annotated pics showing what I believe is going on:





At first I thought this 2-stage feel was something hanging up between the disconnector bar and the plastic grip halves but after the creep happens you can let up and feel the trigger moves freely, the sear is just MOSTLY disengaged from the hammer. I would not be comfortable carrying it around in this state since drops or bumps could potentially make the hammer fall at this point.

Fun fact, you can see the sear and hammer behavior quite clearly when you have the safety removed.
Thanks I will try this fix.
 

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Howdy everyone, longtime member here who just got back in the fold with a new 9mm black M&P (since converted to S&W 59) Sub 2000.

I noticed that the trigger has a distinct "2 stage" quality to it in that after the takeup (which fully returns if you let off) there's a significant amount of creep followed by increased force and almost no movement when it breaks. It appears that the 90 degree corner of the sear is contacting a concave curved part of the hammer. As you squeeze the trigger it takes a fairly small amount of effort to slide that edge along the curved part of the hammer until it hits the flat section of the hammer. At that point, there's contact between the wide flat section of the sear with the wide flat section of the hammer and effort increases. It looks like maybe only 1.5mm of flat section on the hammer. Anyway, I polished the surfaces with Mother's Aluminum Polish and it reduced grittiness by a lot and effort by a little.

Here's some pics:

I ordered a spare hammer and sear from K-T before I messed with the ones that came with the carbine so here's a comparison of unpolished versus polished:



Here's some annotated pics showing what I believe is going on:





At first I thought this 2-stage feel was something hanging up between the disconnector bar and the plastic grip halves but after the creep happens you can let up and feel the trigger moves freely, the sear is just MOSTLY disengaged from the hammer. I would not be comfortable carrying it around in this state since drops or bumps could potentially make the hammer fall at this point.

Fun fact, you can see the sear and hammer behavior quite clearly when you have the safety removed.
Thanks Wolfsburg. Worked Perfectly.
 

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Trigger guard is my issue as well. Hold the trigger guard partially open and squeeze the trigger and it is a smooth pull. Trigger guard all the way down and it is a distinct two stage pull. Will eventually have to do what SquireSCA did. Tho I notice once I have pulled it to the "wall" and release it before pulling the trigger all the way that it stays "staged" internally even tho the trigger has returned to the unpulled position. Making a very easy pull to the previously "staged" position. Does this polishing fix this? As you said if the trigger became prestaged for what ever reason it probably wouldn't be drop safe at that point.
 

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Trigger guard is my issue as well. Hold the trigger guard partially open and squeeze the trigger and it is a smooth pull. Trigger guard all the way down and it is a distinct two stage pull. Will eventually have to do what SquireSCA did. Tho I notice once I have pulled it to the "wall" and release it before pulling the trigger all the way that it stays "staged" internally even tho the trigger has returned to the unpulled position. Making a very easy pull to the previously "staged" position. Does this polishing fix this? As you said if the trigger became prestaged for what ever reason it probably wouldn't be drop safe at that point.
Maybe the trigger guard is your only issue but polishing the contact points on the hammer & sear will make a bigger difference.
Good luck.
 

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When I first got my sub2k it had a gritty two stage trigger just like you say. Then I did a partial Mcarbo performance trigger upgrade. I replaced the trigger, trigger guard, posts and screws. Only thing I didn't replace was the springs, because my sub2k seemed to have a light enough pull for me already. When I put it back together, the two stage thing was gone. Smooth effortless pull up to a immediate wall, and then a clean break.
 
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