FTE - need advice

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Maggie_Drawers, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    Friends,
    Just joined KTOG but have spent a lot of time reading the posts - especially the tech advice. GREAT info!
    I have a new P3AT - I have 2 mags, both have finger extentions.
    My problem seems to be (if I'm understanding the problems right)the "classic" FTE where the empty case gets striped by the next round and thus doesn't get ejected.
    I've done a Fluff & Buff. After each fix attempt I'd go to the range to test it out. I've now got over 300 rounds through it and still get 3 or 4 FTE jams per 50 rounds. Very frustrating. I've shot many thousands of rounds through many pistols but never run into anything like this.
    I read the excellent postings from so many of you I'm hoping that you can give me some advice. I read with great interest the post JFB made 10/19/07 #5 and #19 about sticking the bits of neoprine foam sheet in the mag well and also on the frame to keep the barrel from dropping. Is this still the recommended method to fix my problem? Does the neoprine hold up over time/firings? Naturally, I'm a bit learing of putting anything inside that may come loose and cause a prolem when the gun absolutely needs to function properly.
    There is also reference to a barrel hood modifiction to allow the empty case more room to get ejected. However, I could find no description of just what that modfiction is and how to go about making it.
    I don't know that the slight fore/aft movement of my magazine is a problem but if JFB says the neoprine shims will help I'm all for giving it a try.
    So, gentlemen...is the advice of 10/07 still the way to go?
    Should I also get a new extractor & spring from Kel-Tec?
    Any other suggestions would be most welcome.
    Thanks for any advice - and also thanks for the excellent site. I've gotten a great deal of info on holsters, ammo etc.
     
  2. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    welcome to KTOG...

    As for the neoprim shims, I think there have only been two here that even tried them (me being one  ;) )

    I still have the shims in both P3AT and P32 but I only shot 5 rnds a month lately.  

    I would NOT recomend them UNLESS you fully understand how they should fit AND pay carefull attention after firing to ensure they are staying in place


    But for less than a dollar for a lifetime supply of that foam at WMart, you could try. If you want, I could mail you a few strips
     

  3. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    Thanks!
    Can you tell me about another fix - the "barrel hood modification"?

    I'm willing to try most anything - I kinda liked the shims idea as it wasn't a permanent "removing metal" so if it didn't work I could take them out and be none the worse off.

    I want to avoid sending it back to Kel-tec if at all possible.
    Might simply getting new extractor solve the problem?
    Thanks for your help.
     
  4. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    I never looked closely at the barrel hood mod.  I think its need was for the early production barrels.

    Can some one else shoot it with out problem?  the problem could be how smoothly the slide and barrel moves during recoil (and how much resistance you provide).  Use grease on the rails, the hammer face and lug.  Look at recoil springs, if they are kinked it MIGHT contribute

    calling KT, speak to Service (not Parts), tell them of the problem and ask for
    couple extractors
    its spring
    couple screws
    recoil springs
    Then if that doesn't fix it
     
  5. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    Thanks.
    No one else has fired it. I've fired it held loosely in one hand as well as firmly in 2 hands - same results.
    I've used lots of grease. All seems very slick - esp after the F&B.
    It may be my imagination but the magazines before the finger extensions were put on may have worked better. Perhaps the finger extensions cause the top front of the magazine to tip forward (toward the muzzle). But, that that upsets the geometry or not I really don't know.
    I'll call Kel-Tec and get the parts you suggest and send some more rounds downrange in hopes that this thing can be made to be reliable. Aggravating....my best friend got one at the same time I did - and his has worked great right out of the box.
    Your advice is much appreciated. Thanks.
     
  6. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    I first used the neoprim shims to hold the magazine solid, so that might be something to try.
     
    I put a strip at the rear base and a strip the foward top.  allowing the foward top to extend over the cornor becomes the under the barrel.

    the ideal of a fast magazine swap is not considered for me, so having the mags, hard to slide in and out is ok for me

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    I'm going to give that a try while waitng for the parts to arrive.
    I too can't see me doing a fast reload. If one mag can't do the job at the distances we're talking about having a second isn't going to help.

    I really appreciate your help. I've gotten quite fond of the P3AT....I'm just leary about the reliability until that problem can be conquored.
     
  8. buckeyedave

    buckeyedave Member

    77
    Jan 1, 2010
    I have had the same problem over the last 50 rounds. My P3AT is new. My first 80 rounds ( approx ) I didn't have any problems. Not one feed issue. Then the last 50 or so rounds I have experienced the same problem 3/4 times where the spent round seems to be blocked by the next live round.

    I have been practicing SD shooting with one hand and thought well, maybe limp wristing?? I went to the range today but they were packed. ( on a Tuesday morning ). I plan on going back tomorrow and be conscious not to limp wrist.

    If it is an equipment issue I would like to know as well.

    Dave
     
  9. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    Buckeye Dave,
    I called Kel-Tec today. I explained what was going and the service guy said he'd send me a new extractor. He sounded confident. But, I don't know.

    I've been looking at the magazine fit and think that it is "loose" in that it tends to lean forward...especially when using a mag with the finger extension and a tight grip is held.

    I'm going to try the shim method shown in a prior email diagram. Have to find suitable material. I thought that perhaps some teflon tape might do it, too.

    I'm not sure if I will put the shim on the frame to prevent the barrel from going too far down or not. Of course changing all these thigns at the same time will prevent me from knowing what worked - the new extractor or the modifications. Or,...were both needed.

    I'll post my results here so you can see what happened with mine.

    You wouldn't live in Delaware County would you?
     
  10. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    If you PM an address, I could get some of the stuff I used. (Need it before tomorrow AM, heading to job for weekend)

    Or you find it in wmarts in the craft section. last time I needed a sheet, they no longer sold single sheets but had it in a pack of 6 sheets

    I too should be looking for a better material, but this is holding up OK
     
  11. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    Thanks JFB,
    I'm going to Walmart tomorrow morning and find the stuff.
    I'll post here how it works out.
    I really appreciate your help sorting out this - and so many problems other folks have had. You're a life saver (or at least you're keeping my blood pressure down!)
    Thanks again for the offer.
     
  12. buckeyedave

    buckeyedave Member

    77
    Jan 1, 2010
    Maggie_Drawers

    Maybe I will fire it w/o the pinkie extention on it and see if it still does it.

    I am in Cuyahoga County.

    Dave
     
  13. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    I spent some time last night looking very carefully at the position of the mag. I think that NOT using the mag extension would decrease the likelihood of the mag tipping forward....if that is indeed what is causing the FTE problems. It does move just a hair more I think with the extensions. BUT - it's a whole lot easier to shoot using he mag extensions.
    Today I'm going to walmart to track down the neoprine sheets. I'm also thinking that there might be other, similar, materials that could be used.
    I've got an extractor coming from Kel-Tec - however, I'd like to try the mag well shimming and the barrel shimming before I put on the new extractor.
    Hopefully, I can get the materials today - put the shims in tonight and shoot tomorrow. I'll post the details of the material and the results here.
    I'd lived in Delaware - that's why I asked.
    Will report back later.
     
  14. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    I went to Walmart but couldn't find anything that fit the description. I also tried Lowe's not looking for that particular stuff but anything that might do the job. I came up dry.

    My plan now is to wait for the new extractor and hope that solves the problem. If not - then I'll get back into various shims.

    I have thought that a magazine shim might be made from a tire tube repair patch. Either put it inside the mag well....or, put it onto the mag itself.

    But, rubber probably wouldn't work on the frame where the barrel would impact it on recoil.

    I'm hoping the extractor does the trick. The guy at Kel-Tec service seemed veyr confident.

    Will report back after testing with the new extractor. Hope it's here by Monday.
     
  15. MW_surveyor

    MW_surveyor New Member

    72
    Oct 30, 2009
    Two things,

    I have not read where you checked or tightened the machine screw holding the extractor and leaf spring. Make sure it is tight. Also, put a drop of locktite on the threads.

    Second, you can buy individual sheets of self stick neoprene (or some other foam) at Hobby Lobby and Michales. They have two different thicknesses available.
     
  16. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    MW Surveyor -
    I should have mentioned that. I did indeed tighten the screw on the extractor leaf spring. It was "loose" by about 1/8 turn so I don't imagine that did anything....in any case it still had the same problem.

    I'll keep Michaels and Hobby Lobby in mind. I believe there is a Michaels about 50 miles away (sounds like I'm in the boonies doesn't it). I'll check on that.

    Thanks very much for the info.
     
  17. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    Ah! Just looked at Michaels website and found they have a store 35 miles away - I was going that way to get some more 380 ammo tomorrow. I'll stop in.

    Probably will do test firing (assuming I get ammo and the shims) Friday....depending on the drenching rain.

    Thanks!
     
  18. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    [​IMG]
    I think they were 2mm thick sheets
     
  19. Maggie_Drawers

    Maggie_Drawers New Member

    28
    Feb 2, 2010
    Very kind of you to show me just what I'm looking for. In fact, you and the other guys on the forum have been exceedingly helpful. No one could have asked for more. Believe me, I'm very grateful.
     
  20. diamond

    diamond New Member

    623
    Jan 18, 2010
    A couple of thoughts on troubleshooting...

    When you are troubleshooting a problem, be it guns or computers or whatever, only change one variable at a time. That way, you can positively identify the problem.

    Also, the big thing that caught my attention was the mag extension.  

    You are having problems with your gun with mag extensions right out of the gate.  Your friend, with his unmodded mags, is having no problems.  Can you two go out together so you can trade mags and test them out?

    We all have different reasons for not wanting to mail guns to manufacturers.  But to me, that would be the best thing.  Let the people who built the gun fix it.  They know and understand the gun better than anyone.

    [​IMG]