FMJ ammo for SD

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Kahrbarian, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. Kahrbarian

    Kahrbarian New Member

    6
    Jan 20, 2008
    Do any of you prefer to carry FMJ ammo over JHP in your P3AT? I'm thinking about FMJ over JHP for a couple of reasons. One, FMJ is less expensive and I can find a load that is 100% reliable and practice a lot with it and have confidence in its reliability. Two, better penetration of FMJ to get to vital areas, especially with heavy clothing.

    What do you think of my reasoning? Let me know what you think about FMJ for SD.
     
  2. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    This has been discussed here at great length.  Both are viable options although in the JHP arena, some choices are better than others.  Most FMJ ammo will do the job about the same as they all penetrate plenty and none really expand.
     

  3. c0wboi38

    c0wboi38 New Member

    Sep 19, 2006
    What TX said.


    But FWIW, the only time I'd carry FMJ is if the Hague conventions required it.

    ;)
     
  4. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    dpx
    ranger sxt
    remington golden sabre

    all work fine for me..oh wait, they are all JHP.

    Sorry, what is this FMJ you speak of? yes, JHP costs more, but I think my life is worth it....

    and my friends lives too. JHP ammo makes great gifts...
     
  5. John_W

    John_W New Member

    140
    Oct 2, 2007
    I'm of the camp that alternates rounds of JHP and FMJ.

    Remington Golden Sabers and Federal American Eagle respectively. My personal opinion so far is that this is probably about the best combination I'm likely to find.

    But who am I to speak? Quite a few others have been here a whole lot longer than I have.
     
  6. sharpetop

    sharpetop New Member

    715
    Dec 1, 2004
    Hell Lurker, I didn't think you played by the rules! ;)
     
  7. glenspalding

    glenspalding New Member

    140
    Sep 25, 2007
    Hell Lurker, I didn't think you played by the rules!  ;)
    [/quote]

    He said he "carried" it, not that it was loaded with it. What is the defination of "it".

    Semantics is everything. :D
     
  8. BillK

    BillK New Member

    898
    Jul 23, 2007
    I live in Connecticut and this fall I switched out my hollow points for hard cast flat nosed bullets. My thinking is that these bullets will have extra penetration over hollow points which might be prudent to have due to heavier clothing being worn. In truth its just a feel good kind of thing because I'm just thinking it is a better choice for this time of the year but have no facts or evidence to back it up.

    For some, forget about FMJ vs. JHP, our selecting a .380 vs. say .40 or .45 makes no sense.


    Take care ...
     
  9. spence13e

    spence13e New Member

    May 11, 2006
    Kansas
    i also do the interleaving thing with rem express JHP and WWB. i was surprised to find that some have problems with the flat profile of WWB feeding as i've had no issues. where i live now, the white box is one of the only rounds for .380 i can even find, i'd love to use AE but they're not available.

    lurker may not like to follow the rules but if all you issues is ball ammo, it's what a guy uses...
     
  10. c0wboi38

    c0wboi38 New Member

    Sep 19, 2006
    Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!


    Spence is right. You carry what you're issued. Uncle Sugar does NOT look nicely upon carrying one's own weapons/ammo.

    I got in trouble during a "Health and welfare inspection" back in the Army, for having a pocket knife "too big" that wasn't locked up in the Arms Room. ::)

    I don't want to think about what they'd do if they found you had your own live rounds...

    ::)
     
  11. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
  12. spence13e

    spence13e New Member

    May 11, 2006
    Kansas
    hey lurk - we never had THAT problem. more than a few of us had 7 in ka bars and it was never an issue. and even stranger, when we got to the desert and were loading out on ammo, there was some stray 5.56 HP ammo as well as having to sort thru numerous .50 cal cans of 9mm to find enough ball. there was so much HP floating around it was scary, and i'd still like to know how it all GOT there!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  13. msrdiver1

    msrdiver1 New Member

    114
    Jan 20, 2008
    Ball ammo usually means over penetration. Please equate over penetration with possible liability lawsuits. If the BG goes around the wall in your home and you cant' see him, do you shoot? What if his accomplice is unarmed and your ball ammo penetrates the wall and then the unarmed accomplice? Answer...LIABILITY. At this point allow me to interject a LEO quote, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

    Your defense/carry ammo should stop inside the bad guy (BG). Depending on where the BG was hit, ball ammo may not even be enough for the BG to bleed out. Even if a hollow point doesn't go as deep, the tissue damage and SHOCK to the affected system(s) are tremendous enough for your next few shots.

    Talk to people who have had to pull the trigger; or turn on the news regarding police shootings. Ask them if their first shot went where they thought it would or did they have to shoot again? The first shot usually causes shock then the next several shots should cause lethality. HP causes more shock thus why they were developed to replace ball ammo. If, you MUST use lethal force then, use LETHAL force. Don't ever threaten by waving gun or by using ball ammo. When you started carrying, you made a commitment to self and others that you will use lethal force. In My Humble Opinion, if, you draw your gun then, you made the decision to live. A gun is lethal force. Respect that fact and never shoot to wound (ball ammo). Ball ammo is great if you could ensure a head shot. But at close range, armed robbery for example, that would take too much precious time. Use HP's.

    Practice presentation and grouping(s) with ball ammo. When you are accurate, and also quick, switch to the HP of your choice. Practice your presentation and grouping(s) with the HP of your choice and carry that HP. Read many of the following tests using the link below. DPX seems to be the returning champ. I recommend reading the DPX/Gold Raccoon Test and the P3AT CHEAP JHP WETPACK TEST.

    BTW, Corbon DPX has been tested and proven time and again as great ammo for the 3AT. The heavier, ball like (102gr), Remington Golden Saber uses low flash powder. Both have round bullets, unlike many pointed HPs, and feed without jamming in my 3AT. Neither have ever jammed in my 3AT. The Golden Sabers mass may go through winter clothes better than most lighter HP’s (90-95gr). I also carry the Corbon DPX. I am a firm believer in using a mix of ammo in order to insure penetration and systemic SHOCK. I won’t trust my life to a single brand name. Subsequently, what if that brand name had a faulty lot and I'm carrying it? Lastly, I’m not gonna politely ask the BG to hold still while I sight him in for a “one shot one kill” with ball ammo. In a social situation several shots will probably be fired. I prefer they would all be my shots and not from the BG after I put a little hole through him with the first ball ammo round. Shock and lethality are found in HP’s carry them. That’s my long winded $0.02

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1199737660
     
  14. John_W

    John_W New Member

    140
    Oct 2, 2007
    First of all, while I definitely don't take a cavalier attitude toward possible lawsuits, my first and foremost priority is survival. Stay alive first, then worry about lawsuits. I'm a lot more concerned with underpenetration than overpenetration.

    Secondly, MOST shots fired by LEOs in armed confrontations miss the bad guy entirely. Yet seldom is an innocent bystander ever hit. This is unlikely to be an issue.

    Or, if you still think it's likely to be an issue, then work on your aim. That'll take care of 90% to 95% of concern regarding lawsuits.

    Third, ball ammo in a .357 is probably going to overpenetrate. But if you can keep ball ammo in .380 in the torso, that's most likely where it's going to stay. That's ball. And penetration with JHP in .380 is rather marginal, so if you're going to use it, you need to choose your round carefully.

    I personally use Golden Sabers alternated with American Eagle FMJ, and if I were up north in winter I would switch to 100% eagles.
     
  15. c0wboi38

    c0wboi38 New Member

    Sep 19, 2006
    I alternate Fang Face Extreme Shock rounds, backed by my own load, which is capped with a tiny amount of explosive to ensure penetration, backed by an arsenic filling, to ensure the demise of the perp.




    ;)
     
  16. Barkbuster

    Barkbuster New Member

    4
    Jan 21, 2008
    If worried about the 380 not penetrating enough ,Its winter. Wear a big coat and carry a bigger gun. :)
     
  17. GMax

    GMax New Member

    589
    Feb 16, 2006
    I think most of us carry the P3-AT due to concealability issues. If those didn't exist I'm sure we all would probably carry a service size weapon. Therefore, I too alternate DPX with AE FMJ. The reason I carry the P3-AT over the P-32 is the marginal increase in power. Since .380 HP's are considered the bare minimum SD round by many experts due to under penetration, it just seems prudent to add a few rounds that will most likely provide adequate penetration. Just my opinion.
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel New Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    Eastern Kansas
    I swore I'd never enter into this debate again, but:
    All JHP for me!

    Is it worth trading 900 - 950 FPS Corbon DPX or Speer GD JHP, for 750 FPS WWB FMJ or 800 FPS American Eagle?
    (Winchester White Box is noted for it's sub-par velocity.)

    JHP will not expand on a winter coat anyway, so penetration is very likely to be as good or better then much slower FMJ.

    But if JHP doesn't expand on a coat, which it will not, it may be slowed down to where it won't expand when it finally gets to body fluids.

    So, it is still going to penetrate the same as FMJ if it started out going as fast or faster.
    And if it does expand, even slightly, it is going to do more damage.

    JHP for me!

    rcmodel
     
  19. BillK

    BillK New Member

    898
    Jul 23, 2007

    Just from my experience but unless wearing a SHORT jacket, sweater or sweat shirt my P3AT in my front pocket is much easier/quicker to draw than a non-pocketable bigger gun carried IWB or OWB under a zipped up long winter coat.

    Take care ...
     
  20. GMax

    GMax New Member

    589
    Feb 16, 2006
    If you pay attention to gelatin tests, HP's just don't penetrate the way FMJ's do. If you put a coat over the gelatin, does anyone think a HP will penetrate like an FMJ? Maybe someone could do a test, if it hasn't been done already. Everyone has their logic and will do what they think is best, hopefully none of us will find out real world.