Fixing my issues with brand new P3AT (Long Post)

Solving my P-3AT issues

I recently bought a new P3AT for CCW. After a few range sessions, I became rather disappointed with multiple FTF & FTE ‘s with almost every clip shot. I came to KTOG and read through all the threads on FTF & FTE and realized I wasn’t alone. I tried some of the posted solutions but still couldn’t get it to operate reliably. So, I started tinkering on my own and thought I would share my methods and results.

First, let me tell you all a little about myself and also describe the particular issues I found with the KT P3AT. I haven’t been around handguns for almost 40 years now but just started shooting again recently. I am not a gunsmith but have a pretty good mechanical aptitude and have made my living troubleshooting, repairing, and in some cases designing and building mechanical devices for forty + years. I have a small machine shop so I have no problem “fixing” things. I figured, how hard can it be to figure this thing out?

After the first range session (about 30 rounds) I had at least one FTF or FTE on every clip. I disassembled the 3at and the first thing that I noticed was brass shavings spread all over and mixed in with some aluminum shavings. I studied the frame and slide closely and found that the cases were hitting on the frame during ejection. This has been mentioned here on KTOG and of course the two solutions are either to not worry about it, it will get better in time after the excess metal wears off, or to file off enough metal until the cases no longer hit. OK, I did that.

After the next range session, I no longer saw aluminum but still had a fair amount of brass shavings afterward, and still lots of FTF & FTE. I studied the extractor closely and found that the lower point of the claw was gouging the cases as they were being chambered. I thought was a poor design, so I filed the point to a round edge and meticulously fed empty cases through the extractor with the slide off the gun, and trimmed the extractor until the brass flowed smoothly. Then, off to the range again. This time no more brass shavings and the spent cases weren’t gouged. Still, plenty of FTF & FTE.

Next I addressed the FTF (failure to feed). I found that the first round to chamber would hang up on the feed ramp. I considered the old “fluff & buff” trick, but after manually working the action without the recoil springs installed, I realized the hang-up was not the feed-ramp, rather it has to do with the magazine lips extending to far forward. It seems that as a round is stripped from the magazine, it needs to angle up slightly. At that point, the bottom of the case needs to push down on the rest of the rounds in the clip thereby compressing the magazine spring. The solution is to slightly bend the corners of the front of the magazine lips open just a wee bit. This solution has also been mentioned here on KTOG. Back to the range. Now we have excellent feeding of the first round but now I was facing lots of failure to extract.

Back at the workbench, I spent hours trying to find out exactly what was causing this symptom. Finally, I noticed a bit of collision wear on the top of the extractor claw. Closer examination revealed that the far rear end of the barrel assembly (chamber hood? Don’t know what it’s called) right hand side was colliding with the extractor during the very beginning of the extraction process. This doesn’t show up during slow working of the action. It ONLY happens when a round is fired. The collision pushes the extractor to the right and the claw pops off of the spent case. Ah hah!! I took the dremmel tool to that part of the barrel assembly (chamber hood?) and ground off enough metal to eliminate collisions. Back to the range yet again.

Today, I shot 50 rounds flawlessly for the very first time. I found the inside very clean with NO metal shavings and all the spent brass is in fine shape. I am now a happy man and now feel comfortable using this weapon for CCW.

Now, to the real point of my post. Sorry this is taking so long, but that last problem I found involving the collision between the extractor and the barrel assembly, I haven’t seen mentioned here yet. What I am wondering is, isn’t the Kel Tec factory interested in enough machining to prevent collisions? Most solutions given are F&B and shoot more rounds. True, wearing in a new gun (with problems like I was having) will eventually solve the problems, but at what cost? To me, wearing in a machine is to seat mating parts, not to eliminate collisions. There should be NO collisions of parts that are not meant to mate. And further, when will one know if their gun is reliable enough for CCW with this method?

OK, now for my final opinion of the P-3AT. When it works, it’s a really nice shooter for its size. Its lightweight and easy conceal-ability make it a valuable piece in my collection. I like it so much for CCW that I may just buy another when they become more available. The next one however will get some machine work done on it before its first trip to the range.

Comments? Thanks for reading.

Tom

 

Re: Fixing my issues with brand new P3AT (Long Pos

JFB,

That extractor you show on the right does indeed show the collision damage. Also, in the same picture the right hand part of that extractor is rounded. That's how I filed my extractor. DId you mod that or did it wear in that way?

I would be happy to post pics but I have no way to do that. If someone would like to post them for me I would be happy to email them.

Also, I did a search for "flyer barrel hood mod" and only found one thread with that phrase in it but it didn't list the mod.

 

Re: Fixing my issues with brand new P3AT (Long Pos

So, with the sharp one installed, do you not get any brass shavings after shooting? Also, do you never get any FTExtracts now?

My concern with case gouges is two-fold: Firs tis the grit getting between the slide and teh frame causing increased wear, and secondly, I am gearing up for reloading .380 and I don't feel comfortable with damaged cases....

I find it odd that these problems are so frequent with new guns when just a few minor changes in the machining process would seem to eliminate most of these troubles...

 

Re: Fixing my issues with brand new P3AT (Long Pos

Well now, this might be possible. It was manufactured in 2007 but sold as new in box. It is 2nd gen for sure and there was no wear inside before i started shooting it...

Again, I can take pics but have no way of posting them...

 

Re: Fixing my issues with brand new P3AT (Long Pos

JZ-XXX

 

Re: Fixing my issues with brand new P3AT (Long Pos

So, are you saying that KT has changed things in late 2-gen 3at's? Sounds almost like a 3rd gen....

 

Re: Fixing my issues with brand new P3AT (Long Pos

Well, I checked the trigger for short stroke issues and it doesn't seem to be bothered with that at all.

I am going to clean this thing shortly and will take some pics. I have no plans of opening an account for posting so if you would like me to email them to you, just let me know.

One more thing on teh extractor that I failed to mention: The original edge on teh extractor claw was very wide, so wide in fact that it didn't bottom out in the case groove and further, when the case was seated in the chamber and the slide was in battery, the extractor would ride part way up case ramp. I files off enough of the leading edge to make it thinner it and allow it to seat in the bottom of the case groove. This in addition to rounding the point. It doesn't look like it's done to exacting standards. I didn't put it on a milling machine, I just free-handed it, but it works....