[1KPerDay]

Buddy of mine on a motorcycle forum listed this for sale at a great price. He got it for his wife but she prefers another pistol, didn't match her shoes, etc.

Anyhoo, it arrived at my FFL today and it looks brand new. Checked it out and everything worked right. Took it to the range and stuck a pencil down the barrel to make sure it was clear and shot a magazine worth of 124 ball through it. Recoil was brisk but not painful. Had a hard time hitting a torso well at 18 yards, perhaps due to unfamiliarity with the trigger. I hit it 6 out of 7 shots but not a good group. As the slide locked back I noted the barrel looked dry. I field stripped it, greased the razor sharp rails and oiled up the barrel exterior. Reassembled and fired one shot. Then the trigger came fully to the rear with no movement of the hammer. Obviously something wrong.

I racked the slide, ejected that live round and chambered the next. Then the trigger came halfway back and hit a mechanical wall. The hammer doesn't move at all. The slide will not retract more than a quarter of an inch. It is absolutely locked mechanically and I am at a loss. I tried to jam the sharp edges at the rear of the chamber against a table to rack the slide and it just chewed the crap out of the table. It is not the typical long seated round problem that I have seen before on others' competition pistols and helped clear.

The extractor is in its groove and the brass comes back out of the chamber as I retract the slide as far as it will, so it isn't a cartridge jammed into the lands. Something is broken or come loose inside and it must have something to do with the trigger bar. At least that's the only thing that I can think that it might be. I have put enough force on the slide that I don't want to add any more for fear something will break. Advice, sympathy, scolding, and laughter and finger-pointing welcome. I must say that I am not impressed with my first Kel-Tec experience so far.

Can I drive out some assembly pins? Would that accomplish anything?

 

[1KPerDay]

halp plz... anyone....

 

[grade8holsters]

I've never seen this problem before, so take this with a grain of salt:

If you disengage the hammer spring and drive out the main assembly pins, I think you'll be able to lift out the frame with the slide still attached. This will partially expose the trigger bar and might shed some light on the problem. Look at the disassembly and repair thread for guidance about the various things that will try to spring loose as you do this.

 

[1KPerDay]

Ok... I've been reluctant to punch pins out up to now because from what I understand you have to release tension on the hammer to get things apart... and there's a round in the chamber. if Kel-tec says they don't want it back I guess I'll carefully start pulling things apart. Thanks for the help

 

[1KPerDay]

Do you think this could have been the problem? "trigger goes slack because trigger spring pops out"
http://www.thektog.org/forum/f95/pf-9-disassembly-repair-236841/index2.html#post1917728

Or maybe not... the trigger returned under spring pressure but just didn't move the hammer. In my case. And is now non-functional against a hard wall halfway back.

 

[Jamie]

Call Kel Tec, it's a brand new gun, let them deal with it. Just re-read, it's brand new to you, I'd call them anyway.

 

[1KPerDay]

Well I removed the extractor and took the tension off the mainspring. Everything is still locked up. the slide moves freely about a quarter of an inch and then hits a wall. The cartridge is rattling around in the chamber. The hammer moves now but trigger stops hard halfway back. There's something internal that is blocking the movement of the slide or the unlocking of the barrel. Is it possible to install the takedown pin anywhere other than through the barrel lug? Is it even physically possible that I may have done that?

 

[Inusuit]

Is it possible to install the takedown pin anywhere other than through the barrel lug? Is it even physically possible that I may have done that?

Yes, it's possible to install the takedown pin incorrectly and lock up the gun. Ask me how I know. But I can't figure out how that could have happened if you were able to rack the slide and chamber a round.

As you surely know, this is a dicey situation with a live round in the chamber. When I incorrectly installed the takedown pin (without downward pressure on the barrel hood), my PF9 locked up like yours, albeit without a round chambered. I was able to remove the takedown pin by putting pressure on the slide, pressing down on the muzzle end on my work bench and prying out the pin with a screwdriver padded with tape, also tape on the slide and frame.

Again, please be very careful. In your shoes, I'd consider biting the bullet so to speak and taking it to a gunsmith. I have called Kel-Tec customer service on other issues and found them to be very helpful. They may be able diagnose your problem and help you with a solution.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thank you. The barrel cams down out of lock up with the slide as I retract the slide. when I let go of the slide it cams up. It is acting as though the takedown pin is through the Barrel lug. If I hold the slide back as far as it will go and press on the trigger the slide moves forward. If I hold the trigger back and retract the slide the trigger moves forward.

It is like it's up against a steel wall. It won't budge further. I see no way I can move the slide back enough to get the pin out. Question: if I held the hammer back and used a punch on the firing pin in a safe area would it fire or is there a trigger firing pin block safety?

 

[1KPerDay]

Also, not only was I able to fire that round and chamber the next. Then the trigger acted disconnected and I was able to retract the slide manually and chamber the next round in the magazine before the trigger locked up or whatever it did.

 

[1KPerDay]

OK... spent half an hour with Kel-Tec and he first says take it to a gunsmith, then he says remove the firing pin (says that if I have the extractor screw out the firing pin should drop out the back, which it doesn't on mine), which I try but it won't come out the back... then I have him look at the pics on this thread and he says that round is clearly stuck in the chamber. I keep patiently insisting that I know what a bullet jammed into the lands looks and feels like, and I have cleared many of them as Safety Officer, and this is not the case here. I try to explain that the round is rattling around loose in the chamber, that I can press on it with a pencil from the front and feel and see it move back out of the chamber (as far as it can with slide retracted only 1/4 inch, that the barrel cams down out of battery (he didn't know what battery means) with the slide when I retract it and it cams back up when the slide moves forward, that I have removed the extractor and there is no tension on the cartridge in the chamber, and reemphasized the weird mechanical lockup between the trigger and the slide (retract the slide, it hits a wall, press the trigger and it levers the slide forward; press the trigger as far back as it will move, retract the slide, and it levers the trigger forward) but he insisted that it's a round stuck in the chamber.

I can retract the slide about a quarter of an inch and there's visible space behind the cartridge base, and I press on the nose with a pencil and the cartridge moves out of the chamber back against the breech, but he keeps saying that the pics clearly show a round stuck in the chamber. I start to get frustrated with his pigheaded idiocy and I say thanks, bye.


Guess I'll drive the assembly pins out and see what that accomplishes. I don't want to send this anywhere. It's a puzzle and I want to solve it. I mostly want to know what the hell is happening inside and HOW it can happen.

I tried to get him to answer whether the firing pin would allow the pistol to fire if I struck it with a punch (with hammer mainspring tension released and hammer held out of the way but he wouldn't answer. Probably a bad idea but I sure would feel better about having that round fired out of there.

 

[1KPerDay]

duplicate..................

 

[Inusuit]

Reviewing my recommendations in a previous post, and looking at my PF9, my advice was bad. As you note, the assembly pin won't come out unless you can get the slide back far enough for the assembly pin the clear one of the cuts in the slide.

Man, I would be very hesitant to fire the round in the chamber when the pistol goes in and out of battery. I'm hesitant to make any additional suggestions. But I don't see risk in removing the pins. You said assembly pins, but the schematic says "frame pins." There are some videos about total disassembly of the PF-9 on line. You might want to check those out.

I was so angry and frustrated when I jammed mine through improper insertion of the assemble pin that I considered disposing of the gun. Common sense and a Google search prevailed.

 

[Steve912]

Pressing out the three fat pins (and detaching the hammer spring)
will give a better look at the trigger bar. Don't drive out the smaller
metal pin--that's the hammer block, and tough to reset...

The hammer block may be the source of problems...tho slide action
sounds like something going on with cam block and barrel. Odd one!

Edit: Unless the hammer is laying against it, the firing pin should have
popped out of the slide, when you unscrewed the extractor...another
odd one.

 

[Steve912]

Be very careful when you detach the hammer spring
from frame!!!

You'll be tensioning the spring & 'cocking' the hammer, just
as when you pull the trigger, to fire a round.

I'd recommend you get the firing pin out of the slide FIRST,
before detaching the hammer spring. If that can't be done,
do something to prevent the hammer from striking the pin,
and/or the pin from reaching the primer.

Gloves & eye pro, and pointing in a safe direction, too...

 

[1KPerDay]

Yeah I've been paranoid-careful and will continue to be so. Any ideas on why the firing pin won't drop out the back? Is there a way to coax it?

 

[Dr_Don]

Had an occasion with mine once where the firing pin got stuck because of a bit of primer blowing back into the firing pin hole (I was testing a new round that turned out to be too hot and blew out a primer). Had to drive the firing pin out from the front (once it was field-stripped) with a thin punch. The tolerances between the firing pin, the firing pin spring, and the sides of the firing pin hole are not super tight in the KelTec, but it is possible for a bit of debris to get in there and keep the firing pin from simply falling out once the extractor screw is removed.

 

[Steve912]

Yeah I've been paranoid-careful and will continue to be so. Any ideas on why the firing pin won't drop out the back? Is there a way to coax it?

The firing pin should come out easily...once you do get it
out, the 'why' of what was holding it in will probably be
obvious.

I'd snap a piece of popsicle/corn dog stick and put it between
breech face and primer/case head, and try tapping back of
slide against a wood block.

I don't have my PF-9 in front of me...not sure you'll be able to
get the pin out, with hammer in place, unless you can move the
slide rearward until the hammer starts rolling back.

 

[mtn_chef]

Ok here's my crazy idea.... so you can see the side of the case right? with enough side wall to probably pierce the side wall of the casing with a nice sharp awl. (real sharp, I'd be tuning that thing up on a sharpening stone real good before hand) I'd place that tip of my uber sharp awl as far forward on the side of the case as possible;then with just pressure, not striking it... maybe using a big clamp, pierce the side of the cartridge. Remember towards the base the side wall will be thicker. Once I got a hole in the side of the live round, I'd soak that sucker in a container of water till the powder in there is worthless. I'm thinking a good 20-30 minutes, at least one beer. The gun can be dried out later. Then while it's still damp and now rendered almost inert (don't forget that primer is probably still good) I'd do all the whacking needed to get this gun right. good luck. or laugh at this crazy idea

 

[1KPerDay]

The firing pin should come out easily...once you do get it
out, the 'why' of what was holding it in will probably be
obvious.

I'd snap a piece of popsicle/corn dog stick and put it between
breech face and primer/case head, and try tapping back of
slide against a wood block.

I don't have my PF-9 in front of me...not sure syou'll be able to
get the pin out, with hammer in place, unless you can move the
slide rearward until the hammer starts rolling back.

With the mainspring housing block removed from the slot on the gripframe the hammer can easily be moved back with the thumb. At least mine does.