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Discussion Starter #1
This is ... concerning, to say the least. Awhile back, I would've considered this unnecessary paranoia, but now this is starting to look like a full-fledged "shut down everyone/everything we don't like and don't even let them communicate" kind of deal. I'm not the conspiracy theory type - heck, some of y'all know how I poked fun at Jesse Ventura for his show way back when on my crappy YouTube channel ;) - but this is starting to play out looking like a seriously worrisome means of censorship/control. A sign of more things to come? :eek:

 

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If it gets bad enough someone will put up a server. They are expensive, yes, but if you have 1000+ sites (and there are this and more gun sites out there) each paying $100 a month or whatever the fees are these days, someone will front the hardware for the profits.
 

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When allowed to post about politics, every site degenerates into hate and mean speech one way or the other. Thank goodness KTOG does not allow it. That is why KTOG will remain safe and relevant.
 

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That was my point. KTOG limits political discussion with a heavier hand than most. Not saying that is good or bad. Just saying that it will probably offer zero protection against the censors. KTOG is a gun board. And that fits under their broad brush of targets. Now, if we changed the name to KHOG ("Keltec Haters Online Group") then we would probably be OK.
 

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Amazing this thread has lasted 9 posts.
RAT is right, the BB hosts can choose what goes up and what doesn't.
If Conservatives don't like it, they can get smarter and make their own friendly platforms.
 
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When allowed to post about politics, every site degenerates into hate and mean speech one way or the other. Thank goodness KTOG does not allow it. That is why KTOG will remain safe and relevant.
Not always true. Just have to have rules that don’t allow personal insults and childish reactions. True it takes more over sight and those that own forums have every right to not want to take on that much work. In the end being mum on political issues will not save any pro gun forum if the great silencing continues unchecked.
 

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Not always true. Just have to have rules that don’t allow personal insults and childish reactions. True it takes more over sight and those that own forums have every right to not want to take on that much work. In the end being mum on political issues will not save any pro gun forum if the great silencing continues unchecked.
I somewhat disagree (but not completely). After reading what most of the members discuss on this site, I feel that almost everyone here is level headed and not full of hate. I don't think anyone is on a watch list, and we just really want to discuss our love of our equipment and ways to keep them functioning properly. I feel safe on this site and I don't see anyone taking our calm discussions away from us. Sites like this have survived for years and have weathered much more controversial times.
 

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Yes, but as every other company loves to say in their commercials, "THESE ARE UNPRECEDENTED TIMES." ;)
 

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Amazing this thread has lasted 9 posts.
I don't see why there would be a problem. This thread is about censorship, not about politics. Just because currently it is the liberal viewpoint that is attempting to censor the conservative viewpoint, that does not make it political. At a different point in time, it could be conservatives trying to silence liberals. The point is censorship itself - it is bad no matter who is doing it. Partly because censors are usually zealots for their cause, and they paint with a broad brush.

As an example of that concept, is the very first post that started this thread. The worry that KTOG "might be next". This would not be fair as KTOG is quite strict about political discussion. KTOG is not the problem. However, the fear of it potentially being shut down is real, due to the current climate that is trying to silence a large swath of citizens. This is not a theoretical threat. We have examples of this censorship right in front of our noses. It is not being hidden, it is being flaunted.

If censorship is off limits for discussion, then KTOG won't have much to complain about if it is censored out of existence. That is actually a realistic possibility, because as I said previously, KTOG is a gun board. It matters not that KTOG does no allow political discussion. It matters not that KTOG had nothing to do with the riots at the Capitol. It matters not that people here are not planning insurrection. It matters not that we are all good people, a mix of liberal and conservative viewpoints that can get along with each other just fine (with occasional guidance/correction from the mods). The only thing that will matter to the censors is that KTOG is a gun board.

IMHO, that makes discussion of censorship a relevant topic on KTOG. It is at our doorstep. It will take self-restraint for forum members to not conflate the destructiveness of censorship with discussion about who is doing the current round of censorship. The "who" changes over time, making it irrelevant - the "destructiveness" does not.
 

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I doubt KTOG is next.
We talk about guns and stuff, not insurrection.
 

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Of the several media platforms that have been disabled, only one was a gunboard. I think the common denominator was most likely political, but including talk of violence, hate speech, racism, insurrection discussions, etc... call it what you like. There are tons of gunboards probably hosted by the same companies on the same servers that are up and running, including ktog.

I haven't look at the AR15 site in years, but I do recall it having some fairly "radical" types with lots of trash talk, insults, and likely some younger, testosterone driven, loudmouth, keyboard commandos that were not particularly well moderated. Has it changed? I don`t know, but my guess, in the current political climate, would be that it has changed more in that direction, not less. Feel free to correct me if they are now a bunch of choir boys that got shut down just because they discuss firearms. I did a cursory search or two trying to find a verifiable reason for AR15's unceremonious dumping but I drew a blank. My best guess is less about technical gun talk and more about political trash talk, i.e. violence, etc.

On the subject of political discussions, in my 20 years at ktog, I have seen more than few threads get down and dirty quickly before a moderator noticed. Sometimes a member starts a thread with something specific in mind that may sort of skirt politics. They don`t have the experience or the intuition to foresee the direction that other posters will take the thread. When I delete or lock a thread, it may be party due to the current content and largely due to where I absolutely know it will go.

When I started at ktog, the no politics, religion, etc rules were in place, but they were not at all well enforced. Old guard members may remember when Ray owned this little forum and kept it on his server. He was essentially AWOL and yzguy (1bad69) was the only moderator. He spent his scant time here on technical gun stuff and rarely even looked at the Counter. It got so bad at one point that the forum was barely useable. That's when several members split off and started the Keltec Range, and the two forums were essentially at war. Eventually The KTR fell by the wayside.

Since those days this forum has grown by leaps and bounds with new boards added to accommodate new guns and others added for a variety of purposes. I brought on several moderators, most of whom eventually parted company or limit their time and effort here now. It is mostly me doing the bulk of the heavy lifting. The avoidance of non-essential arenas for arguing, religion, politics, etc has served us well. Especially these days, there are ample venues to stake your ground on those issues. We here at ktog are best served by focusing on Keltec products, and other subjects wherein we are bound together as a community. Some folks tend to paint with a broad brush and pigeonhole people quickly berating "libtards, socialists, atheists, religious nuts" whatever. If someone is genuinely interested in KetTec/ktog, that's what counts. I certainly appreciate everyone who respects this forum, all of the members, and the rules that keep it a nice place to hang out. We have always welcomed conservatives, liberals, middle-of-the-roaders, and people of any color, creed, or background, so long as they have an interest in firearms, especially KelTecs.
 

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I haven't look at the AR15 site in years, but I do recall it having some fairly "radical" types with lots of trash talk, insults, and likely some younger, testosterone driven, loudmouth, keyboard commandos that were not particularly well moderated. Has it changed? I don`t know, but my guess, in the current political climate, would be that it has changed more in that direction, not less.
I tried to do a search of the site yesterday, and some of the old tweets still there were rather controversial in appearance. Not real sure about their leanings because I never visited the site myself. As I stated before, I feel very safe in my discussions here.
 

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Of the several media platforms that have been disabled, only one was a gunboard. I think the common denominator was most likely political, but including talk of violence, hate speech, racism, insurrection discussions, etc... call it what you like. There are tons of gunboards probably hosted by the same companies on the same servers that are up and running, including ktog.

I haven't look at the AR15 site in years, but I do recall it having some fairly "radical" types with lots of trash talk, insults, and likely some younger, testosterone driven, loudmouth, keyboard commandos that were not particularly well moderated. Has it changed? I don`t know, but my guess, in the current political climate, would be that it has changed more in that direction, not less. Feel free to correct me if they are now a bunch of choir boys that got shut down just because they discuss firearms. I did a cursory search or two trying to find a verifiable reason for AR15's unceremonious dumping but I drew a blank. My best guess is less about technical gun talk and more about political trash talk, i.e. violence, etc.

On the subject of political discussions, in my 20 years at ktog, I have seen more than few threads get down and dirty quickly before a moderator noticed. Sometimes a member starts a thread with something specific in mind that may sort of skirt politics. They don`t have the experience or the intuition to foresee the direction that other posters will take the thread. When I delete or lock a thread, it may be party due to the current content and largely due to where I absolutely know it will go.

When I started at ktog, the no politics, religion, etc rules were in place, but they were not at all well enforced. Old guard members may remember when Ray owned this little forum and kept it on his server. He was essentially AWOL and yzguy (1bad69) was the only moderator. He spent his scant time here on technical gun stuff and rarely even looked at the Counter. It got so bad at one point that the forum was barely useable. That's when several members split off and started the Keltec Range, and the two forums were essentially at war. Eventually The KTR fell by the wayside.

Since those days this forum has grown by leaps and bounds with new boards added to accommodate new guns and others added for a variety of purposes. I brought on several moderators, most of whom eventually parted company or limit their time and effort here now. It is mostly me doing the bulk of the heavy lifting. The avoidance of non-essential arenas for arguing, religion, politics, etc has served us well. Especially these days, there are ample venues to stake your ground on those issues. We here at ktog are best served by focusing on Keltec products, and other subjects wherein we are bound together as a community. Some folks tend to paint with a broad brush and pigeonhole people quickly berating "libtards, socialists, atheists, religious nuts" whatever. If someone is genuinely interested in KetTec/ktog, that's what counts. I certainly appreciate everyone who respects this forum, all of the members, and the rules that keep it a nice place to hang out. We have always welcomed conservatives, liberals, middle-of-the-roaders, and people of any color, creed, or background, so long as they have an interest in firearms, especially KelTecs.
And by the way, we newer guys on this site wish to thank you for the very interesting history tour.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well, while it may indeed be that Arfcom had more than its share of "extremist" folks on there talking crazy shenanigans, and that's the supposed justification for taking it down ... one has to wonder where the line is drawn, and if this is a slippery slope. How long before simply discussing the use of firearms becomes "extremist" behavior. Because, y'know, not EVERYONE owns a gun, much less carries one. Why do we have and carry guns? Are we THAT paranoid? Who's out to get us? What are we afraid of? Why don't we trust that the government has our best interests in mind with everything they do? Are we plotting something? Y'know, only someone that was afraid someone was out to get them and/or they were PLANNING to do stuff would have a gun that holds so many rounds and shoots such a powerful cartridge! If we didn't intend to be waging war, why would we want or need or even talk about weapons of war? Why are we being allowed to have a forum where we can discuss this potentially dangerous stuff? And why do we have private messages? Are we HIDING something? Plotting something, perhaps? :eek:

See how the narrative can shift as needed to justify things?

Given, KTOG's policy of avoiding politics in discussions does make for a more welcoming, generally peaceful place to discuss things. But just because we don't discuss politics does not make us immune from OTHERS' politics. Because regardless of where one sits on the political fence, simply owning a firearm and enjoying it as a hobby puts a person solidly in the "THEM" category to certain people. And when those certain people decide that a site hosts something which doesn't suit their needs/wants and they figure there's enough justification and public support that they can get away with doing so, well ... one day you might try to log into KTOG and get this:



Sad thing is, there's not a whole heckuva lot we can do about it until it happens. And then when it does, there's only so much we can do about it after the fact. Escape to another server host and hope they don't refuse to host or they later shut things down for similar reasons? Get a buncha investors or whatever together to set up an independent server and hope it doesn't get hacked and shut down by denial-of-access methods or poisoning the DNS? Beyond that ... dunno. Not trying to stir the pot, just saying ... this stuff IS going on now in ways we haven't seen before, and this ride is juuuuuuust getting started, given the social climate we're in right now.

Very concerning and more than just a little bit scary to think that this could be a sign of things to come online.
 

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And paranoia doesn't help one sleep at night, either.
 
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