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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, I have shot a 3AT before and knew what I was getting into....so I was not shocked that mine behaved the same as the one I'd shot before. As has been said many times, these aren't plinkers.
I was pleased to find that mine functions flawlessly. I shot 60+ rounds of both Remington HP's and FMJ's through it and it didn't even hiccup. I had greased it well beforehand.
I did learn one valuable lesson: shoot my other guns FIRST, then practice with the 3AT! The little thing beat my hand up to the point that I could not hold the others very steady after putting 60+ rounds through the P3AT. But then, it did EXACTLY what it was designed to do: put seven .380 rounds out quickly and flawlessly from a small, lightweight, easily concealed package. It just isn't what I would call "pleasant" to shoot. I'll add some tubing to the grip before the next session. And I will keep sessions with it to 30 rounds max from now on.
Accuracy? I have no idea. I was testing functionality first. I did hit an 8.5"x11" piece of paper at 15 yards several times...but it's no target gun! I need to set up a larger target at 7 yards to see what I can do with it for it's intended purpose.
The range officer cracked me up....he said, "It sure ain't a reloader's gun, is it?". Apparently every empty shell was being flung 25 feet into the creek! At least I know the ejector works!
Jack
 
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Jack... Glad to have you here.

Glad the first time out was good!

If you have not done so, I would consider the fluff and buff, good clean and lube.

golden loki fluff and buff

http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/keltec/prep.htm

http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/keltec/prep2.htm


new gun prep
http://1bad69.com/keltec/newgunprep.htm

dissasembly
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/disassembly.htm

lubrication hints/tips
http://www.ktog.org/tecwerks1.htm#Lubrication

And yes.....the lil .380 likes to send the empties flying!

Mine hit the top of my head sometimes when I am trying to shoot it fast!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you for the welcome....and thanks to all for the tips and tricks on this forum.
I did add the standard bicycle tube to my P3AT grips yesterday (see photo below). That'll help the feel a lot. It's ugly, but I'm hoping no one will ever need to view it. I doubt I'll add the finger extension, it adds length. I'd install the +1 extension (and gain a round) if I was going to add grip length.
The sole purpose of this gun for me is for carry. I knew it would not be comfortable to shoot extensively, but I didn't buy it to plink with. I have plenty of other "fun guns" to shoot :) ... I don't practice with a carry gun using shooting gloves, as I won't have them on when I would really use the gun.
I received the Concealed Concepts Pocket Pal holster yesterday also. I suppose it will do for carry in a coat pocket, but it's much too bulky for shoving into the front pocket of my jeans. It basically doubles the thickness of the gun. And the severe straight cut of the bottom tilts everything in a curved jeans pocket. I see a Nemesis in my near future. Although for now I am working up some wallet leather I have into a pocket holster (may as well, since I do leather work). Our state law requires the gun be in a holster. I want the minimum material necessary to meet that requirement and diffuse the pistol outline....without looking as though I've stuffed a foam pillow into my pocket! :) Jack
 

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HiJack.  Ok, sorry, couldn't resist.  

I am in total agreement with you on almost all of your points, especially the gloves.

I don't like the curved extensions because of size, printing, etc. and find that I don't like shooting with them either.  I do have the +1s on my carry mags as they are narrower than the grip and fit in a space that wasn't being used anyway without adding to the printing.

I have both the Nemesis and the Pocket Pal.  They are the same size for width and especially in tighter pants, the Pocket Pal does a better job of hiding the print.  If the Pocket Pal is too thick for you so will be the Nemesis.  If I can find some of pics comparing them I will add them to this post.  At that point you have to find a think Kydex to get thinner - similar to the Grandfather Oak or K&D I believe is working on a Kydex as well.  The K&D 2+1 pocket holsters are all leather and are really a piece of art and REALLY nice to carry in.  Spendy compared to the universal cheapies we have been discussing, but well worth it.  For those times when you just can't get anything into your jeans pockets you may also consider the www.smartcarry.com   A lot of us really like it a lot too.

-Scott

A side by side comparison of the Pocket Pal and Nemesis:

The Nemesis may appear to be significantly smaller (although a large part of this is the angle of the photo:


In reality, although there may be more material there, a top on top picture proves the Pocket Pal does not add any over all size to the Nemesis:
 

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You and I clearly have different Pocket Pal holsters.  I'd love to see some pics because I just can't comprehend what "curve at the rear" means.  If they are not putting out what I have anymore I may have to curb my recommendations for them.

The following just went out to them from their website.  It will be interesting to see what response I get:

Mark and Melanie.  I am a little concerned about the current state of the Pocket Pal.  I have been recommending it day after day to many people.  I purchased from you in January of this year.  (I am the one that talked with Melanie about spelling Kel-Tec correctly on your site).  

Those that have bought it recently are telling me things like the gun doesn't fit all the way down in it, the shape is not the same, it is far thicker than mine etc.  

The one I have is pictured here:


Can you please tell me if that is not indicative of what you are selling anymore?

Thanks, Scott



-Scott
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
adamsesq said:
Jack (and Flounder) - do yours have the "3" parts and the vertical magazine holder like the one in the picture, or just two compartments and an angled mag holder like mine?-Scott
Okay, I am at home and took a photo of mine. It is like Rustynuts' photo in the "Snug As A Bug" post. Quite different from your photo.
And now that I've looked at it again, and measured it...I'm really disappointed! I checked the paperwork and the bag it came in, it is the correct model supposedly.
With the gun in position, it is 1.375"+ thick!!! For a .75" thick gun? The muzzle is a full 1.0" from the bottom of the holster. The flat bottom with pointed corners is 4.5" across! .75" wider than the grip end. The spare mag "slot" is a joke of an afterthought. And it takes two hands to draw the gun, "Hold on there a minute, let me get this out first before you stab me....be with you in a jiffy!"
So why take a 5.2" x 3.5" x .75" gun and make a 6" x 4.5" x 1.375" package to "conceal" it?
It will make a decent range holster for my Davis P-380 I suppose, or in a coat pocket. But it is not a front jeans pocket holster...unless you are the Sta-Puft Marsmallow Man. ;)
I should have sprung the extra $4 for a Nemesis! Lesson learned. ... Jack

 

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jackstinson said:
[quote author=adamsesq link=1185801371/0#8 date=1185899623]Jack (and Flounder) - do yours have the "3" parts and the vertical magazine holder like the one in the picture, or just two compartments and an angled mag holder like mine?-Scott
Okay, I am at home and took a photo of mine. It is like Rustynuts' photo in the "Snug As A Bug" post. Quite different from your photo.
And now that I've looked at it again, and measured it...I'm really disappointed! I checked the paperwork and the bag it came in, it is the correct model supposedly.
With the gun in position, it is 1.375"+ thick!!! For a .75" thick gun? The muzzle is a full 1.0" from the bottom of the holster. The flat bottom with pointed corners is 4.5" across! .75" wider than the grip end. The spare mag "slot" is a joke of an afterthought. And it takes two hands to draw the gun, "Hold on there a minute, let me get this out first before you stab me....be with you in a jiffy!"
So why take a 5.2" x 3.5" x .75" gun and make a 6" x 4.5" x 1.375" package to "conceal" it?
It will make a decent range holster for my Davis P-380 I suppose, or in a coat pocket. But it is not a front jeans pocket holster...unless you are the Sta-Puft Marsmallow Man. ;)
I should have sprung the extra $4 for a Nemesis! Lesson learned. ... Jack


[/quote]

Ok - Some of my measurements show that it is a bit different.

Mine is:
1 1/16" thick at the widest spot (Nemesis is 1/32" WIDER)
4.5" wide along the bottom. (Nemesis is 4" - but doesn't have a mag slot...)

5.5" up the side along the slide (Nemesis is 4.75)
BUT Bottom of holster to end of gun (by serial number)
5 5/8" (Nemesis 1/8" shorter)

My barrel touches the double stitching on the bottom. So it sounds like the new ones are a bit "puffier" and taller up the side that what I have (which may be because you cannot drop the weapon in all the way (the grip of my weapon touches the sewing between the weapon and the magazine slots). Bummer.

What I don't understand, however, is why it is a problem to draw or the magazine holder is "a joke" or "an afterthought" as mine easily stays in the pocket with one handed draw of the weapon though getting the extra mag out usually brings out the holster with it.

-Scott
 

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Well I don't know if this is going to work any better. After drafting a long, detailed reply I got bit by the timeout bug and the rebooted without saving my clipboard...Ugh.

I received a phone call back from Mark Turner at Concealment Concepts. His number is 724-971-7691 and he welcomes anyone to call him to discuss this. Other than having ordered several Pocket Pal holsters from his wife back in January I have no ties with him and have had no conversations with him until today.

He seems genuinely concerned that he has unhappy customers and willing to do whatever is necessary to make sure that doesn't happen. The Pocket Pal is his number 1 selling holster and has been for quite a while. He says that to explain that not only has there not been any changes to the design or materials in the last 6 months, he does not want to make any. The don't change something that works ideal. Before he called me he had found KTOG and found this thread all on his own. He cannot explain the discrepencies except that maybe we all are measuring slightly different. The only specific measurement we talked about was from the end of the barrel to the outside edge of the holster and he said that should be "less than an inch". Mine is exactly 1/2" and it sounds like Jack's and maybe Flounder's (from a previous conversation I had with Flounder) is closer to (or more than?) an inch.

Mark did allow for the fact that one of the seamstresses may have sewn some tighter than normal which could restrict how far down in it the weapon would sit. However, in looking at Jack's picture posted here his sits up against the grip just like mine does so that seems to be the stopping point, not the end down by the barrel. Completely without prompting, Mark offered to mail me for free a current stock, current production model to compare with what I have and it should go out tonight. When I get it I will measure and compare against mine.

With regard to thickness. I wonder if carrying mine in my pocket on and off for 6 months has "flattened" some of the "fluff" that Jack has a problem with? That could account for some if not all of the thickness differences but I don't know for sure.

Mark did say that he has been in communication (email) with Jack. Jack, he also said that you had emailed him a picture of a Desantis Nemesis and told him that is what you thought you were getting. Is that true? Is it possible that you were expecting something different from the beginning and that has contributed to your disappointment? I don't know, I am just asking. I know that doesn't explain Flounder's experience.

Over all my thoughts in talking with Mark were that he was very customer service oriented and really does not want unhappy people out here. He wants expectations of his product to be high (but accurate) and he wants to reach or exceed them. So far he has with the two holsters I have but only time (and receipt of the new one to compare to) will tell. I think I will start a new thread with this over in the Accessories area as that is where we really should be with this.

-Scott
 
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